CSM Meeting Minutes 5.001

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All this data is potentially out of date, and should be taken with a truckload of salt

See also CSM Meeting Minutes 5.001 raw log

CSM 5 meeting 001, Sat 5th June - Meeting Minutes


CCP Xhagen, CCP Diagoras, CCP Hammer, Mynxee, Ankhesentapemkah, Dierdra Vaal, Korvin, Vuk Lau, TeaDaze, Trebor Daehdoow, ElvenLord (alt), Alekseyev Karrde (CSM4), Mrs Trzzbk (CSM4), Z0D (CSM4)


Meissa Anunthiel


Sokratesz, Mazzilliu (alt), T'Amber (alt), Helen Highwater (alt), ALPHA12125 (alt)


Meeting started at 16:07

CCP Diagoras formally welcomed all delegates of CSM5 and thanked all delegates of CSM4 for taking part in this process adding that they'd all been great!

ElvenLord joked that he wanted his Medal. Z0D requested this be in bold in the minutes

CCP Diagoras asked if Mynxee wished to take on the role of chair of CSM5. Mynxee confirmed she did.

CCP Diagoras stated the purpose of the meeting was for the delegates of CSM4 and CSM5 to discuss any issues that they would like to be passed forward or to ask any questions about the process. He added that he and Xhagen were present in case any input from CCP was needed. ElvenLord confirmed that CSM4 had already passed all lists and tasks to CSM5 and stated that secretary and chairman of CSM4 were still present in CSM5.

Ankhesentapemkah asked if there was a wiki category containing all the open issues so CSM5 could see that. Mynxee replied that the lists were linked in the meeting announcement thread for meeting 002

Dierdra Vaal thought CSM5 needed to appoint other positions within the council. Mynxee thought so too and CCP Diagoras confirmed that would indeed be one of the primary roles of the meeting and handed the reigns over to Mynxee for her to arrange voting on the other positions within the CSM.

Z0D stated he was being asked by some people (knowing he was in the CSM4/CSM5 crossover meeting) to bring more T3 Ship classes.

Mynxee stated the first order of the day to elect a vice chair and asked who wanted to stand for the position. Vuk Lau and Dierdra Vaal stepped forward. There was then some off topic joking about the NC war deccing eve uni.

Mynxee brought the meeting back on topic and called for a vote.

Ankhesentapemkah: Vuk Lau got my vote
Mynxee: Dierdra
Trebor Daehdoow: Dierdra
TeaDaze: DV
Dierdra Vaal: DV
Korvin: DV

Mynxee confirmed that Dierdra was voted in as vice chair. She then asked who wanted to stand for secretary.

Ankhesentapemkah and TeaDaze stepped forward. Ankhesentapemkah requested to conduct an application speech which Mynxee granted.

Ankhesentapemkah pitched for the position with the following statement.
As secretary I plan to reform the wiki to make it more accessible by the players and more useful to the CSM by categorizing information appropriately. I also plan to produce movies of the CSM efforts and release them to the public so we can make them better known to the average Eve player. 12% turnout is still not enough. We have a long way to go and I'll gladly contribute to this. As secretary of CSM1 I have an excellent track record for this position and implemented the CSM wiki initially which was copied into the evelopedia afterwards. My minutes were also quite detailed. What I want to do regarding the minutes is link them directly into wiki issues like I did on my old wiki so players can see the actual status and what CCP has said regarding an issue without having to read minutes.

Mynxee asked if TeaDaze wanted to say anything.

TeaDaze pointed out that anyone in CSM could update the wiki and it didn't need the secretary to do it and added that he had been returned to the CSM mostly on the strength of his work as CSM4 secretary. TeaDaze finished by stating he wasn't offering gimmicks just minutes produced in a timely manner after every meeting.

Ankh wanted to reply, Mynxee agreed but reminded everyone it wasn't a debate. ElvenLord joked it was election speech time.

Ankhesentapemkah responded with the following
The wiki is currently a mess and needed drastic restructuring, no offence. May I note that all my minutes have been released within 2 days of the meeting. And to Z0D, that I had an initiative going with the Questions and Answer sessions with CCP, which worked well in CSM2 but was discontinued in CSM3, unfortunately. We need to reinstate that as well as that would give us monthly coverage in a way that benefits the players as well.

Mynxee asked if TeaDaze wanted to reply. TeaDaze stated he had nothing further to add as everyone had seen what he'd done for CSM4.

ElvenLord responded to Ankh that the wiki is run by CCP and ISD and unless they gave the rights and such to restructure/alter wiki in a significant way then she was just talking shit. Ankhesentapemkah replied that CCP should give CSM full rights to it and that she asked for that during CSM2.

Mynxee called for a vote

Vuk Lau: I dont have any preferences here both are excellent secretaries
Mynxee: TeaDaze
TeaDaze: Got to vote for myself :P
Trebor Daehdoow: TeaDaze
Korvin: TD
ElvenLord: TD
Dierdra Vaal: TD
Ankhesentapemkah: well I don't consider TeaDaze fit as the wiki is a mess so I'll vote for me.

Mynxee confirmed TeaDaze was elected as Secretary of CSM5 and suggested the meeting continue with voting for vice secretary before further discussions. She then asked who wanted to stand for vice secretary.

Ankhesentapemkah and Trebor Daehdoow stepped forward. By way of a speech Trebor stated he had the spare time to devote to the task, and that editing was a big part of what he does for a living.

Mynxee called for a vote

Dierdra Vaal: Ankh
Trebor Daehdoow: me
TeaDaze: Trebor
Vuk Lau: Ankh
Mynxee: Trebor
Ankhesentapemkah: me
Korvin: Trebor

Mynxee confirmed Trebor Daehdoow as vice secretary.

Ankhesentapemkah laughed at the "anti-ankh bandwagon" and stated she would set up her own wiki in parallel to the mess on Evelopedia. Korvin suggested this was the main reason for voting the way he had. Mynxee suggested Ankh participate on a committee to deal with the wiki.

Dierdra Vaal pointed out that even though TeaDaze was secretary it didn't mean CSM5 could expect him to do all the secretary work, especially when everyone should improve the wiki as Ankh had mentioned. Dierdra Vaal added that CSM5 members didn't need a secretary title to promote the CSM.

Ankhesentapemkah agreed with Dierdra but stated the secretary had the main privileges to do those things. Ankh complained that if she did things on her own accord with the wiki, then she would get the blame if anyone disagreed, adding that someone else would get the credit if she did things right. Ankh continued that she would unfortunately have to set up her own initiative and bypass the CSM for now and that if CSM5 liked what she did it could be adopted.

Mynxee thought the Wiki was too big challenge for one person and it would be better suited to a committee which should include the Secretary. She added it was a matter for discussion and agreement among everyone. Ankh countered that she did it all as one person in CSM1 and CSM2 and thought it was certainly doable that way. Mynxee replied that a committee would avoid the concerns about disagreements and would be invested with decision making power.

Z0D thought the important thing was the end result perceived by the players and suggested working together on this as a group as that was really the end goal here. Mynxee agreed. Ankhesentapemkah believed this was hard to do with the anti-ankh sentiments.

Mynxee addressed this point stating that she knew there was a lot of anti-Ankh sentiment. Mynxee restated her disagreement with Ankh's position on many issues but that she expected every single person on CSM5 to give Ankh's proposals and comments due consideration and to act with respect. Mynxee ended by stating that she was not tolerating any trolling or other playground crap and that she expected everyone to work together as adults.

Mrs Trzzbk joked that trolling makes the world go round.

Ankhesentapemkah thanked Mynxee and stated she planned to put her best effort into the CSM process and wanted to work productively with everyone even though she didn't agree with some of the issues either. Ankh added that CSM5 represent different play-styles in EVE but there were many issues in common which needed to get addressed by CCP. Dierdra Vaal agreed. Ankh continued that working together and providing inputs from each viewpoint presented a more complete picture of an issue and would make CCP take them more seriously. Mynxee stated she was very optimistic about this CSM session but that was her nature anyway.

Mynxee said that she and Elven had talked about agenda items and there wasn't anything else to discuss. Dierdra Vaal asked if that concluded the meeting reminding everyone there was a second meeting the next day.

Z0D thought that CCP should add eve news articles from time to time to put CSM activity to the forefront of the player when they log in etc. CCP Xhagen noted this comment. Z0D thanked Xhagen.

CCP Xhagen requested the floor and wanted to say that he knew everyone would take the process seriously and that progress had been made with the CSM. CCP Xhagen reminded everyone that it takes time and sometimes it might seem like ages, but usually CCP get there. Z0D joked that 1 million AU still needed to be travelled but it was possible. CCP Xhagen continued that both he and CCP Diagoras were fully behind CSM5 and would do their best. Mrs Trzzbk suggested it was a good thing to have Xhagen behind you because he's literally a Viking.

CCP Xhagen said he looked forward to this term and believed things would only get better.

Alekseyev Karrde stated that CSM4 put a lot of work into developing a prioritized list of items to be considered for the dev cycle under the new stakeholder agreement. He requested that CSM4 be copied in on CCP's response or it could be published to the player base, if not right away then within a reasonable time frame. CCP Xhagen replied that CCP would keep CSM4 up to speed about things in a timely manner.

Trebor Daehdoow asked CCP if prior CSMs were still under NDA, and if there were limits on what CSM5 can discuss with them. CCP Xhagen confirmed that prior CSMs were still under NDA and would remain so for 5 years after termination of the NDA. CCP Xhagen added that as proven in the past there is not much that CCP discusses with the CSM that they insist the CSM keeps secret. CCP Xhagen suggested conferring with current and past CSM members but if in doubt to email him or CCP Diagoras and let them decide.

Alekseyev Karrde thought it was cool to be able to discuss issues freely with CSM5 and suggested as far as disclosure that if it wasn't in the Minutes, Patch notes or Dev Blogs then it was probably under NDA.

CCP Hammer apologised for being late

Dierdra Vaal asked Xhagen/Diagoras/Hammer (he wasn't sure who got the email) when CSM would have an answer relating to an email sent some days previously adding that sooner would be better and time was running out. ElvenLord stated that Xhagen had said he had two answers already and would send a mail when the rest were ready. Ankh asked which email this related to. Dierdra Vaal replied that it was an email CSM5 decided to send after the informal meeting which Ankh didn't attend. Ankhesentapemkah stated it was unfortunate and that she had asked for a summary but was told that nothing was discussed or decided. Dierdra Vaal confirmed this was true and it was just sent an email asking for info on the PI fuckup. ElvenLord also confirmed the mail was about PI and CCPs future actions on the mess made with it. CCP Xhagen stated a wish to provide CSM5 with relevant and good information but that he still didn't have it. He committed to sending it as soon as he did have it all. Dierdra Vaal hoped it would be in time.

Other Business[edit]

(Second meeting already scheduled for Sunday 6th June at 18:00 eve time).

Ankhesentapemkah asked when CSM5 would get their medals. CCP Xhagen stated he had instructed CCP Diagoras to provide the medals as soon as he could. ElvenLord and Z0D reminded him not to forget CSM4 medals.

Mrs Trzzbk wanted a Congressional Medal of Honour and thought that Z0D's medal should say something about having his laptop at dinner so he could buy a Hulk BPO. Z0D agreed it was Epic as the auction was climbing above 100 bil.

Dierdra Vaal asked a question about travel arrangements which CCP Xhagen answered.

Meeting closed at 17:06