CSM Meeting Minutes 5.002 raw log

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All this data is potentially out of date, and should be taken with a truckload of salt

CSM Meeting Minutes 5.002 raw log

[ 2010.06.06 18:06:15 ] Mynxee > .========================MEETING CALLED TO ORDER========================
[ 2010.06.06 18:06:38 ] Mynxee > Welcome to our first working meeting. This is a summarized version of the agenda:
[ 2010.06.06 18:07:03 ] Mynxee > 1. Follow up CSM4 issues2. Follow up CSM4 Development assessment items
[ 2010.06.06 18:07:24 ] Mynxee > 3. Proposals and Issues4. Roundtable list of topics5. Other business
[ 2010.06.06 18:07:35 ] Mynxee > Open to suggestions re sequence.
[ 2010.06.06 18:07:51 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:07:58 ] Mynxee > go ankh
[ 2010.06.06 18:08:05 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:09:34 ] Vuk Lau > :quicknote: while waiting for your turn pretype your stuff in notepad so we can save time
[ 2010.06.06 18:10:30 ] Mynxee > Meanwhile, roll call: Ankhesentapemkah Dierdra Vaal Korvin  Mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 18:10:43 ] Mynxee > Sokratesz  T'Amber  TeaDaze
[ 2010.06.06 18:10:50 ] Mynxee > Trebor Daehdoow and  Vuk Lau
[ 2010.06.06 18:10:52 ] T'Amber > ! Here.
[ 2010.06.06 18:10:56 ] Mynxee > go vuk while we wait for ankh
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:08 ] Vuk Lau > Regarding agenda issues 1 and 2 there is no time for us to discuss 48 issues.
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:09 ] TeaDaze > SAhe's gone
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:23 ] Vuk Lau > I propose to redistribute the issues among delegates
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:43 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:49 ] Mynxee > vuk, i know we can't discuss them all, but i thought we coudl discuss how best to approach getting them dealt with.
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:49 ] Vuk Lau > so each can chair the issues he wants
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:54 ] Mynxee > go tea
[ 2010.06.06 18:11:59 ] Vuk Lau > i didnt finisged
[ 2010.06.06 18:12:09 ] Mynxee > sorry, continue.
[ 2010.06.06 18:12:21 ] Vuk Lau > before I continue
[ 2010.06.06 18:12:35 ] Vuk Lau > what do u mean under approach?
[ 2010.06.06 18:12:41 ] Vuk Lau > [18:11:07] Mynxee > vuk, i know we can't discuss them all, but i thought we coudl discuss how best to approach getting them dealt with. - this
[ 2010.06.06 18:13:11 ] Vuk Lau > we need to approach them in best manner for them to be presented to CCP
[ 2010.06.06 18:13:17 ] Vuk Lau > they are all voted in by previous CSM
[ 2010.06.06 18:13:22 ] Mynxee > i mean how do we ensure they are properly followed up on...such as your suggestion of committee work, and how best to deal with them for ccp presentation
[ 2010.06.06 18:13:23 ] Vuk Lau > our job is to present it to CCP
[ 2010.06.06 18:13:27 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:13:49 ] Mynxee > let vuk finish, ankh. then you can go.
[ 2010.06.06 18:14:16 ] Vuk Lau > thats why I propose that each candidate takes the issue he thinks he can present them properly. I could set up a google sheet so we can distribute them. Ofc we should all get as much as possible equal ammount of issues (end)
[ 2010.06.06 18:14:40 ] Ankhesentapemkah > had same problem in CSM2, what we did was let the CSM from previous cSM that raised the issue hand it over in person to a CSM of their choosing on the new CSM, so they can do the transfer 1:1
[ 2010.06.06 18:14:41 ] Ankhesentapemkah > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:19 ] Mynxee > sounds reasonable, anyone else wish to contribute thoughts to this?
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:24 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:31 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:32 ] Mynxee > go trebor
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:46 ] Vuk Lau > skr
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:48 ] Vuk Lau > oops
[ 2010.06.06 18:15:56 ] Vuk Lau > Mynx sorry it was TD turn now
[ 2010.06.06 18:16:01 ] Vuk Lau > and guys pretype
[ 2010.06.06 18:16:07 ] Trebor Daehdoow > This relates to other items that will come up as well, but what mechanism do we have to tell CCP what priority we are assigning to a particular proposal?
[ 2010.06.06 18:16:23 ] Trebor Daehdoow > And can we do something to make the logistics of polling eveyrone about that simpler? done//
[ 2010.06.06 18:16:29 ] Mynxee > my bad, sorry Teadaze.
[ 2010.06.06 18:16:34 ] Mynxee > go please, Tea
[ 2010.06.06 18:16:45 ] TeaDaze > We have the second half (post summit) CSM4 issues to submit. What exactly are we needing to discuss further amongst ourselves on them? The new format of the summit means we will not be spending the 3 days talking on each issue anyway.
[ 2010.06.06 18:17:09 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:17:12 ] TeaDaze > I see no need for a "champion" to take on each issue in that context [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:17:44 ] Mynxee > i don't know, Tea. That's why we're having this discussion ... to discover what needs done to ensure continuity.
[ 2010.06.06 18:17:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:17:55 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:04 ] Mynxee > ankh is next i believe
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:05 ] Ankhesentapemkah > Just make a sheet with all issues, then list them 1-3 with 1 if you can advocate the issue well and 3 if you can do it but only if you have to. Former CSM then picks who gets the issue out of the interested CSM5 people, that can be done in 2 days. CSM5
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:19 ] Ankhesentapemkah > then discussed with CSM4 guy in person what should be said to CCP exactly.
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:20 ] Ankhesentapemkah > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:26 ] Mynxee > go dv
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > as I understand it we submit items to CCP and CCP send us a reply - offloading some of the work that was previously done during the csm/ccp meetings. We can do that with the CSM4 issues and discuss only the ones....
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > where we dont agree with CCPs reply.
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:38 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:43 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:48 ] Mynxee > go vuk
[ 2010.06.06 18:18:50 ] Vuk Lau > is the new format of summit including discussion about raised issue or not?
[ 2010.06.06 18:19:01 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:19:06 ] Mynxee > go teadaze
[ 2010.06.06 18:19:50 ] TeaDaze > Restating that CSM4 and now CSM5 summit meeting s are different and WE WILL NOT be sitting there for 3 days presenting our issues one at a time. CSM1-3 did this and CCP decided it wasn't as productive as the format used for CSM4 [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:12 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:19 ] Mynxee > vuk, go
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:20 ] Vuk Lau > what format did u guys used?
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:21 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:24 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:29 ] Mynxee > go TD
[ 2010.06.06 18:20:49 ] TeaDaze > We submitted two lists, one of minor issues (not requiring discussion, just yes or no)
[ 2010.06.06 18:21:26 ] TeaDaze > The other list was stuff for discussion. CCP picked from this list and with the Devs available set up roundtables on those issues
[ 2010.06.06 18:21:48 ] TeaDaze > We had a final half day on quick disussion points [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:22:05 ] Mynxee > so to clarify all we have to do is categorize items as minor (agreed, no discussion) or major (agreed, needs discussion)
[ 2010.06.06 18:22:16 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:22:18 ] TeaDaze > Basically yes
[ 2010.06.06 18:22:24 ] Mynxee > vuk go
[ 2010.06.06 18:22:26 ] TeaDaze > in priority order
[ 2010.06.06 18:22:27 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:23:12 ] Vuk Lau > should we then make a google sheet so we can vote ont hat (minor/major) with [18:17:23] Ankhesentapemkah > Just make a sheet with all issues, then list them 1-3 with 1 if you can advocate the issue well and 3 if you can do it but only if you have to.
[ 2010.06.06 18:23:29 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:23:32 ] Vuk Lau > or we dont need anyone to advocate the major issues
[ 2010.06.06 18:23:33 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:23:39 ] Mynxee > go DV
[ 2010.06.06 18:23:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > can we request roundtables? I dont entirely trust CCP to pick the right ones tbh. end
[ 2010.06.06 18:24:00 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:24:05 ] Mynxee > we will request roundtables, yes. hence the agenda item.
[ 2010.06.06 18:24:09 ] Mynxee > go teadaze
[ 2010.06.06 18:24:15 ] TeaDaze > Last time Elven took priority lists from everyone and we tweaked it in the meeting before the summit list submission
[ 2010.06.06 18:24:40 ] TeaDaze > This was done via the forum
[ 2010.06.06 18:24:43 ] TeaDaze > And IIRC we also requested dicussion on dominion as a roundtable [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:25:11 ] Mynxee > speaking of teh forums, when do we noobs get access? I emailed about it but not response yet.
[ 2010.06.06 18:25:14 ] Mynxee > vuk go
[ 2010.06.06 18:25:19 ] Vuk Lau > why shouldnt we reqeust roundtables? Its our right to request them, and will CCP grant them is another thing :p END
[ 2010.06.06 18:25:47 ] Mynxee > we have two listsone with 29 items and one with 19 items
[ 2010.06.06 18:25:54 ] Mynxee > so 48 items.
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:00 ] Mynxee > some duplication
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:04 ] Mynxee > but not much.
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > (links?)
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:26 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:30 ] Mynxee > http://evelopedia.com/en/wiki/Reference:_Issues_from_CSM4_to_Review
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:34 ] T'Amber > http://evelopedia.com/en/wiki/Reference:_Issues_from_CSM4_to_Review
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:35 ] T'Amber > :)
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:36 ] Mynxee > http://evelopedia.com/en/wiki/Reference:_Development_Assessment_Items_from_CSM4
[ 2010.06.06 18:26:41 ] Mynxee > go teadze
[ 2010.06.06 18:27:02 ] TeaDaze > Requesting roundtables is fine and those are generally more useful than debating the issues that we've already passed
[ 2010.06.06 18:27:13 ] TeaDaze > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:27:46 ] Mynxee > seems the first step is to identify all the issues we can submit without further discusion.
[ 2010.06.06 18:27:53 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:27:59 ] Mynxee > (Note for the minutes that at some point Ankh lost connection)
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:05 ] Mynxee > go TD
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:12 ] TeaDaze > We still need to discuss them and pass them in our meetings
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:19 ] TeaDaze > (Or reject them)
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:26 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:30 ] Mynxee > why, if csm4 already voted to pass them?
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:40 ] TeaDaze > But this is for the list of passed topics to go to CCP for them to backlog etc [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:28:54 ] TeaDaze > (I mean new issues not CSM4 passed issues)
[ 2010.06.06 18:29:08 ] Mynxee > we are not discussing new issues. but point noted.
[ 2010.06.06 18:29:13 ] Vuk Lau > ah scrap my !
[ 2010.06.06 18:29:21 ] Mynxee > also be aware, i may lose connection due to weather on this end.
[ 2010.06.06 18:29:30 ] TeaDaze > o/ Mazz
[ 2010.06.06 18:29:37 ] Mynxee > hi mazz
[ 2010.06.06 18:29:41 ] mazzilliu > hey
[ 2010.06.06 18:30:12 ] mazzilliu > whats going on
[ 2010.06.06 18:30:37 ] Mynxee > discussing how best to deal with passing csm4 stuff to ccp...
[ 2010.06.06 18:31:02 ] Mynxee > and which of the 48 topics need a discsusion and which don't, at the summit.
[ 2010.06.06 18:31:27 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:31:33 ] Mynxee > go treb
[ 2010.06.06 18:31:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:15 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I would suggest we develop a format for rating items (major/minor, importance, discussion needed, etc).  Then I could for example write an app to collate the results recvd via email from delegates and present the data and results at next meeting.
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:26 ] Trebor Daehdoow > This would permit us to go through the list much more quickly.
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:27 ] Trebor Daehdoow > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:43 ] Mynxee > go DV
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:53 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:54 ] Dierdra Vaal > To be honest, I see little in the list that I feel needs a full on discussion. FW complex npcs and standings (although it should be an overall FW discussion, not just that issue), docking games...
[ 2010.06.06 18:32:58 ] T'Amber > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > blackops and station services...
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > the rest all seem fairly minor issues.
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:15 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:16 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:29 ] Vuk Lau > scrap my !
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:57 ] Mynxee > go tamber
[ 2010.06.06 18:33:59 ] Dierdra Vaal > (oh actually mineral sources and sound issues would be good too)
[ 2010.06.06 18:34:20 ] Mynxee > dV can you please take over for the moment, as i know i will disco shortly
[ 2010.06.06 18:34:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok
[ 2010.06.06 18:34:31 ] T'Amber > Diedrea Vaal and I both have voting code already written that could be used for something, but I believe the list from CSM4 is already in order. [/end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:34:38 ] T'Amber > (AT TREBOR)
[ 2010.06.06 18:34:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > TD?
[ 2010.06.06 18:34:57 ] TeaDaze > The 19 issues on development assesment have already been presented to CCP as far as I can tell, thus it is only the http://evelopedia.com/en/wiki/Reference:_Issues_from_CSM4_to_Review listof 29 that need to be sorted plus any from CSM5
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:05 ] TeaDaze > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > given that
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > do we know how many roundtables we can get?
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:30 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > instead of talking about what we think is important: how many slots are available for issues?
[ 2010.06.06 18:35:34 ] Dierdra Vaal > TD
[ 2010.06.06 18:36:02 ] TeaDaze > I think we had 6 or 7 sessions a day, I'd have to find the hardcopy of the agenda though which I don't have to hand
[ 2010.06.06 18:36:06 ] TeaDaze > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:36:23 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:36:37 ] Korvin > i have the agenda if you want it
[ 2010.06.06 18:36:38 ] TeaDaze > (each session is 50 mins, plus 5 at the end to sort out what will go on the minutes)
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > ak
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:35 ] Dierdra Vaal > ank*
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:38 ] Ankhesentapemkah > should we just assume 15 roundtables total, and we make wishlists for what roundables we want. We then reserve 6 slots ot the roundtablesthat will have the highest overall score and 1 additional one which each of the CSM can raise that hasnt been covere
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:45 ] Ankhesentapemkah > d by those 6 main slots with the highest point totals?
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:50 ] Ankhesentapemkah > technical I know but just a suggestion
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:52 ] Ankhesentapemkah > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:37:58 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:38:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > sok
[ 2010.06.06 18:38:14 ] Sokratesz > last time ccp just allocated time based on what they wanted our input on + time for the issues we labeled important
[ 2010.06.06 18:38:26 ] Sokratesz > and that worked pretty well [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:38:41 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:38:43 ] Korvin > [Removed link to Iceland Agenda]
[ 2010.06.06 18:39:36 ] Vuk Lau > thanx
[ 2010.06.06 18:39:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > ank
[ 2010.06.06 18:40:54 ] Ankhesentapemkah > that might not cover niche playstyles though, if I say FW is important for example and you all say 'bleh we dont want to talk about that' issues can be left in the dirt. end
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:07 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:09 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:20 ] Ankhesentapemkah > looking at that screenshot I see a lot of CCP issues but oerall it looks good so my fear might be unfounded
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:21 ] Ankhesentapemkah > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > sok (and td after)
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:27 ] Sokratesz > we actually raged quite a bit about FW last time and they plainly told us they did not care [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:40 ] Ankhesentapemkah > so they need more kicking in the nuts
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:47 ] Dierdra Vaal > td?
[ 2010.06.06 18:41:48 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:42:00 ] TeaDaze > What Sok said, we spent a fair bit of time trying to get movement on FW and lowsec [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:42:13 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:42:29 ] Sokratesz > so then we label FW as an important issue we want to discuss :) [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:42:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > sok
[ 2010.06.06 18:42:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:43:40 ] Korvin > ! Mynx dropped connection vice chairman go [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:43:43 ] Sokratesz > ^ that was all [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:44:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > ank
[ 2010.06.06 18:44:10 ] Ankhesentapemkah > Perhaps you did not market the issue properly, I'll do my best to market it this time though, but I think this is quite irrelevant at this poitn as we need to set the agenda first not to discuss FW details now. Lets get moving. end
[ 2010.06.06 18:44:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > dv
[ 2010.06.06 18:44:38 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:44:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree FW needs to be on the agenda. I can also understand CCP are being completely stubborn about it. We'll just have to insist like the skillqueue. end
[ 2010.06.06 18:44:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > TD
[ 2010.06.06 18:45:25 ] TeaDaze > If you want to put the boot in evertime we talk about CSM4 raised issues then we're not going to get anywhere anyway. I'll also point out it was a take care candidate who drove those discussions and IMO he did well [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:46:09 ] Dierdra Vaal > lets stay away from questioning the comptency of other councils
[ 2010.06.06 18:46:16 ] T'Amber > +1000
[ 2010.06.06 18:46:44 ] T'Amber > It will reflect worse on the person making the comment and this csm in general.
[ 2010.06.06 18:46:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:46:59 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok now
[ 2010.06.06 18:47:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > to try and wrap this up
[ 2010.06.06 18:47:12 ] Dierdra Vaal > we have a limited amount of roundtables
[ 2010.06.06 18:47:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > and more issues, not all of which require a roundtable
[ 2010.06.06 18:48:01 ] Dierdra Vaal > so lets set up a spread sheet where we can assign points to each issue depending on how important we think it is and evaluate the list next week. I know a lot of us want to add a roundtable on CCP's development attitude
[ 2010.06.06 18:48:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > I suspect we will in fact request LESS roundtables than the total slots
[ 2010.06.06 18:48:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > which should leave CCP some room
[ 2010.06.06 18:48:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > to repeat: we'd evaluate the final list next week before submitting it to CCP
[ 2010.06.06 18:48:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > any objections?
[ 2010.06.06 18:49:01 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:49:12 ] Vuk Lau > i am ok with it
[ 2010.06.06 18:49:32 ] Trebor Daehdoow > NP
[ 2010.06.06 18:49:52 ] T'Amber > mynx has weather problems, ill say np for her ;)
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:04 ] TeaDaze > I would suggest each person eve-mails their priority list and chair uses these to submit the final list.
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:35 ] Dierdra Vaal > would a spreadsheet not be more convenient?
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > either way its mynxee's job so lets wait for her to come back
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > before making a final call on that
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:52 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok?
[ 2010.06.06 18:50:55 ] Ankhesentapemkah > google docs pls or something
[ 2010.06.06 18:51:09 ] T'Amber > she has issues with thunderstorms apparently, it may be some time before shes able to return
[ 2010.06.06 18:51:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > treb
[ 2010.06.06 18:51:38 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I think we should discuss what info we wish to collect for Mynxee to collate.
[ 2010.06.06 18:51:45 ] TeaDaze > I'm not keen on CSM official discussions being done on external sites
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:00 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Might as well gather info about our priorities. [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:07 ] T'Amber > ingame evemail would be more secure and less likely for external influence. :|
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:17 ] Vuk Lau > [18:49:48] Dierdra Vaal > would a spreadsheet not be more convenient?
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:21 ] Vuk Lau > seriously
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:49 ] Vuk Lau > just dont make it open for everyone
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:54 ] Dierdra Vaal > spreadsheets can automatically do the rankings. but whatever you guys prefer is fine by me
[ 2010.06.06 18:52:56 ] Vuk Lau > no need for complicating things
[ 2010.06.06 18:53:05 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:53:51 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > td
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:11 ] TeaDaze > Vuk, what is more complicated, using eve mail and eve forums or having everyone register google accounts and cross reference them for security? seriously ;)
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:18 ] TeaDaze > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:22 ] Dierdra Vaal > ank
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:35 ] Ankhesentapemkah > My battery wil diewithin 10 minutes do I need to come online in about half an hour from now when I have a powersocket? is there anything I need to comment on now?
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:36 ] Ankhesentapemkah > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:54:41 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:16 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > vuk
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:33 ] Vuk Lau > TD what security are you talking about? CCP is using our private mail accounts anyway? Whats security issue in making a googlesheet? Not to mention that you dont need google account for accessing googlesheets
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > and ank, probably yes, try to log back in :)
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:38 ] Vuk Lau > Seriously?
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:53 ] Vuk Lau > It proven as effective during CSM 2 and CSM 3
[ 2010.06.06 18:55:57 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok guys this yes-googledocs, no-googledocs argument is goign nowhere
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:09 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > I'll let mynxee decide which she prefers
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > and we'll all like it
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:27 ] Dierdra Vaal > treb?
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:38 ] Trebor Daehdoow > We could use an email form and people simply code each line item with their priorities, for example:M5DR = Major, Priority 5, Discussion required, Rountable requested. (just as an example)Quick to enter the data, easy to parse.  For now, not usi...
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:53 ] Trebor Daehdoow > using outside sites without ccp blessig is probably best.
[ 2010.06.06 18:56:53 ] Vuk Lau > pls dont complicate things
[ 2010.06.06 18:57:06 ] Trebor Daehdoow > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 18:57:10 ] Vuk Lau > we dont need CCP blessing for this dear lord
[ 2010.06.06 18:57:14 ] T'Amber > !
[ 2010.06.06 18:57:36 ] T'Amber > I suggest an impromtu vote and then pass it on to Mynx to decide
[ 2010.06.06 18:57:43 ] T'Amber > as vuk suggested
[ 2010.06.06 18:57:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > fine
[ 2010.06.06 18:58:17 ] Dierdra Vaal > vote is: evemail/email to gather the data, or an online spreadsheet (like google docs). vote now!
[ 2010.06.06 18:58:22 ] Dierdra Vaal > x spreadsheet
[ 2010.06.06 18:58:24 ] Vuk Lau > googleocs
[ 2010.06.06 18:58:32 ] T'Amber > email
[ 2010.06.06 18:58:35 ] Mynxee > x spreadsheet
[ 2010.06.06 18:58:35 ] TeaDaze > evemail
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:05 ] Trebor Daehdoow > abstain
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:11 ] Korvin > icq :P
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:14 ] T'Amber > lols
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:17 ] T'Amber > hahah
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:28 ] TeaDaze > (You can't abstain in votes, it is against the charter ;))
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:30 ] Vuk Lau > abstain?
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:36 ] Vuk Lau > exactly
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:39 ] Dierdra Vaal > oh god not this again
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:45 ] Vuk Lau > seriously why in he gods name you should abstain
[ 2010.06.06 18:59:59 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:01 ] Ankhesentapemkah > oh seems I arrived at the right time
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:03 ] Ankhesentapemkah > ABSTAIN!
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:06 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:19 ] Vuk Lau > [18:57:47] Mynxee > x spreadsheet Queen has spoken
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:23 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I'm good either way - I have no good information to make a decision.  But assuming there is precedent for google docs, google docs is fine by me.  x google docs
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:26 ] Mynxee > storms are still here, so please continue acting as chair, DV. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4675926356_e9c6651d8e_m.jpg
[ 2010.06.06 19:00:38 ] Mynxee > also...
[ 2010.06.06 19:01:16 ] Mynxee > was email option where each person submits a list with their x minor or discussion next to each of the 29 items?
[ 2010.06.06 19:01:19 ] Mynxee > (end)
[ 2010.06.06 19:01:33 ] TeaDaze > Yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:01:50 ] Mynxee > and one person compiles results?
[ 2010.06.06 19:01:54 ] TeaDaze > yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:25 ] Mynxee > i change vote to email then due to more info/greater udnerstanding with that clarification
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > by my count, spreadsheet as a majority
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > oh
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:42 ] Mynxee > it is more secure, DV.
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:44 ] Vuk Lau > :facepalm:
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:47 ] Ankhesentapemkah > I vote spreadsheet
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:48 ] Vuk Lau > more secure?
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:49 ] Korvin > yes, mail and forum
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:50 ] Dierdra Vaal > that brings it to 3 email and 3 spreadhseet
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > and 1 icq
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:54 ] Sokratesz > vote for mail
[ 2010.06.06 19:02:56 ] Trebor Daehdoow > back to mail.
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:00 ] Dierdra Vaal > mail it is
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:01 ] Vuk Lau > ROFL
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:11 ] Ankhesentapemkah > gah, cavemen
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:16 ] Ankhesentapemkah > :P
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee or TD can have fun combining the results
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok!
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > next agenda issue..
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > B. Development Assessment Items.
[ 2010.06.06 19:03:58 ] Dierdra Vaal > or was that this one too
[ 2010.06.06 19:04:08 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:04:12 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:04:24 ] Mynxee > believe that list of items was already submitted to ccp as mentioned earlier, iirc.
[ 2010.06.06 19:04:34 ] Mynxee > end.
[ 2010.06.06 19:04:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > so we do not need to go over it, yes?
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:02 ] Mynxee > didn't seem so, unless there was a desire to request related roundtable topics.
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:06 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:12 ] Dierdra Vaal > that brings us to the last issue
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > which is only the 'excellence' issue
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > I'll let dv introduce it
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:30 ] Ankhesentapemkah > which was defered to next week right?
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:40 ] Dierdra Vaal > not as far as I know
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1327790
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:51 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:05:54 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:04 ] Mynxee > was not requested to be deferred.
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok,
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:13 ] Mynxee > only ankh requested hers be deferred. end.
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:17 ] Ankhesentapemkah > ok
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > I'll introduce it now:
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:40 ] TeaDaze > http://evelopedia.com/en/wiki/Commit_to_excellence_(CSM)
[ 2010.06.06 19:06:41 ] Dierdra Vaal > now we all know what the issue is about. Its basically a proposal of the CSM for CCP to evaluate their attitude towards eve development
[ 2010.06.06 19:07:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > all I really want to accomplish is to have a good discussion with CCP about what clearly many players see as a problem.
[ 2010.06.06 19:07:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > any comments/questions
[ 2010.06.06 19:07:33 ] Ankhesentapemkah > sorry to interrupt but battery will die in 2 minutes and I vote nay but would like the issue document to be completed by other CSM as our feedback is not included in the doucment and thus the document does not meed excellence standards
[ 2010.06.06 19:07:37 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:07:40 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:07:59 ] Dierdra Vaal > (noted ank)
[ 2010.06.06 19:08:25 ] Mynxee > i see this issue as a core issue that impacts every other thing we request or discuss with ccp, thus I suggest it is most important thing to discuss with them. end.
[ 2010.06.06 19:08:41 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:08:46 ] Dierdra Vaal > treb
[ 2010.06.06 19:08:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:11 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I cannot agree more. This is a key issue for this CSM. [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:15 ] Ankhesentapemkah > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:25 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > dv
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree with mynxee. I also understand anks complaint. My issue was intended to be basically a catch-all, which is why I stayed away from concrete demands vis-avis features. If you feel your view is not represented I can adjust the issue.
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:09:50 ] Dierdra Vaal > ank
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:16 ] Ankhesentapemkah > please let at least me and whoever else wants to contribute add stuff to the document, lets not rush this as it is the most important issue. Becuase it is a catch-all it pushes issues i wanted to raise out as they overlap in large amounts
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:25 ] Ankhesentapemkah > end, tunnel, dead now
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:39 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:50 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:54 ] Mynxee > others are before me
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > oh wait sorry
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > sok first :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:10:59 ] Sokratesz > agreed with mynx this needs a separate time slot in iceland, we already made headway on this topic in csm 4 but it needs updating and some serious feedback from their side. [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:11:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > now mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:11:56 ] Mynxee > i suggest there is not a lot of time to "work" the issue document; it is well stated as is for purposes of discussion with ccp--which is likely to lead in unpredictable directions anyway. end.
[ 2010.06.06 19:12:04 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:12:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > I think the discussion itself will allow for individual input :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:12:17 ] Dierdra Vaal > TD
[ 2010.06.06 19:12:26 ] TeaDaze > I don't think this needs any further work to use as a starting point in iceland. [end[
[ 2010.06.06 19:12:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > Ank (if you're still here), can you give a short overview of the things you'd want to add?
[ 2010.06.06 19:13:51 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:14:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > guess she's gone
[ 2010.06.06 19:14:34 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee?
[ 2010.06.06 19:14:39 ] Dierdra Vaal > (after mynx we'll vote)
[ 2010.06.06 19:15:07 ] Mynxee > I a happy to vote now, and trust you to incorporate stuff from ankh later that you feel adds to the document. not sure if this is acceptable protocol, however. whatever we decide, is fine by me. end.
[ 2010.06.06 19:15:23 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:15:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > td
[ 2010.06.06 19:15:59 ] TeaDaze > If we are voting on the document as is then that is fiune. If you want to add stuff it needs to be deferred really for voting at a future meeting. [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:16:16 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:16:28 ] Dierdra Vaal > I suppose we could raise an issue to amend this issue next time
[ 2010.06.06 19:16:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:16:45 ] Mynxee > what you just said, lol. end.
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok well vote on this issue: CCP should commit to excellence (as it is)
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > yae
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:33 ] TeaDaze > y
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:38 ] Trebor Daehdoow > yeah
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:38 ] Mynxee > yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:43 ] Korvin > y
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:47 ] Dierdra Vaal > (ank voted nay)
[ 2010.06.06 19:17:49 ] Vuk Lau > y
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > 6/1 (issue is accepted with quorum)
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:08 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > 7/1
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:18 ] Dierdra Vaal > t'amber?
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:23 ] T'Amber > yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:27 ] Dierdra Vaal > or whoever was first alternate
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:28 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:31 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:34 ] TeaDaze > Passed 8 for 1 against
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:42 ] Mynxee > mazz is first alternate, fyi
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:44 ] Mynxee > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:46 ] T'Amber > Mazz is but shes not here
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > oh right
[ 2010.06.06 19:18:56 ] Dierdra Vaal > anyway, the issue is passed
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > that seems to conclude the agenda, correct mynxee?
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:12 ] Dierdra Vaal > waitn no
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > D. Compilation of a list of roundtable topics to submit to CCP for the June Summit agenda.All CSM5 delegates and Alternates are invited to attend.
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:16 ] Mynxee > one other item
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:31 ] Dierdra Vaal > CCP did extend our submission deadline until the 15th
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:33 ] Mynxee > and Other Business--which is basically agreeing to a meeting schedule.
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:38 ] Dierdra Vaal > ah yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:19:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > do you wish to take over again? :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:20:00 ] Mynxee > yeah but if i drop, you continue
[ 2010.06.06 19:20:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > rgr
[ 2010.06.06 19:20:11 ] Mynxee > thanks DV.
[ 2010.06.06 19:20:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > chair tag team
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:04 ] Mynxee > ok, i think it's a good idea to list roundtables of high priority. I have some suggestions, by no means a fixed list:
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:19 ] Mynxee > .-- CSM=Stakeholder: Expectations, Process Change-- Low Sec: Possibilities/Future-- Factional Warfare-- Backlog: Approach to prioritization-- UI: What is in backlog, what is status?
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:29 ] Mynxee > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:31 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:40 ] Mynxee > go dv
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > add the excellence topic to that? other than that I agree
[ 2010.06.06 19:21:58 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:03 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:09 ] Mynxee > go vuk
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:17 ] Vuk Lau > Dominion changes to 0.0 and feedback
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:21 ] Vuk Lau > same goes for capital ships
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:26 ] Vuk Lau > and supercapital ones
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:35 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:37 ] Vuk Lau > wrap it under one hat
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:40 ] Mynxee > can you word that more succinctly?
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:48 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:52 ] Vuk Lau > 0.0 (is that ok)
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:54 ] Vuk Lau > :p
[ 2010.06.06 19:22:55 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:04 ] Mynxee > :) ok. go DV
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > would that include (lack of) treaties vuk?
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:14 ] Sokratesz > yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:16 ] Vuk Lau > why not
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > cool
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:21 ] Vuk Lau > also
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:29 ] Vuk Lau > i totaly forgot
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:31 ] Vuk Lau > sec
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:45 ] TeaDaze > Did you mean tyrannis or do we want to go over dominion again?
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:47 ] Vuk Lau > http://evelopedia.com/en/wiki/Overhaul_of_roles_and_grantable_roles_system_(CSM)
[ 2010.06.06 19:23:58 ] Mynxee > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:02 ] Vuk Lau > tyranis didnt changed anything related to 0.0
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:10 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:19 ] Mynxee > would this summarize your roundtable desires, vuk: 0.0 (Dominion, Caps/super caps, treaties)End
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:29 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:30 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:41 ] Mynxee > ok
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:52 ] Vuk Lau > thanx
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > as well as the roles issue apparently?
[ 2010.06.06 19:24:55 ] Mynxee > that makes 7 on the list of round table topics then
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:01 ] Sokratesz > can i go sleep now
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:02 ] Mynxee > oh 8
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:05 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > tdc
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:08 ] Vuk Lau > rolles as separate issue tbh
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:17 ] Vuk Lau > its important for everyone
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:23 ] Vuk Lau > not related to 0.0 strictly
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:30 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:35 ] Vuk Lau > anyone who manages even a 10 man corp knows how horrible system it is
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:37 ] Mynxee > .-- Excellence-- CSM=Stakeholder: Expectations, Process Change-- 0.0 (Dominion, Caps/super caps, treaties)-- Roles/Grantable Roles Overhaul-- Low Sec: Possibilities/Future-- Factional Warfare-- Backlog: Approach to prioritiza...
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:40 ] Mynxee > -- UI: What is in backlog, what is status?
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:44 ] Vuk Lau > awesome
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:48 ] Mynxee > trebor
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:54 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I would like a better idea from those delegates who have been through the process what the appropriate scope of a roundtable is.
[ 2010.06.06 19:25:56 ] Trebor Daehdoow > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:26:07 ] Dierdra Vaal > (teadaze is waiting for !)
[ 2010.06.06 19:26:13 ] Mynxee > go TD
[ 2010.06.06 19:26:15 ] Mynxee > sorry
[ 2010.06.06 19:26:40 ] TeaDaze > List looks fine to me. To answer Trebor:
[ 2010.06.06 19:26:50 ] Korvin > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:27:10 ] TeaDaze > CCP provide devs related to the area of discussion and then depending on the issue we thump the table and shout at them ;) [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:27:18 ] Mynxee > korvin go
[ 2010.06.06 19:27:27 ] Korvin > I want to add a previous expansions impact on a game balance issues, if its possible.
[ 2010.06.06 19:27:56 ] Mynxee > -- Impact of previous expansions on game balancedoes that work for wording?
[ 2010.06.06 19:28:00 ] Korvin > Its beyond te excelence discussion
[ 2010.06.06 19:28:31 ] Korvin > we had a brief discussion of it every time we had 0.0 issues discussion
[ 2010.06.06 19:28:47 ] Korvin > or dropped features discussion
[ 2010.06.06 19:28:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > is this a specific expansion or in general?
[ 2010.06.06 19:28:57 ] Korvin > something like why gallente sux
[ 2010.06.06 19:28:58 ] Korvin > ets
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:04 ] Korvin > all of them
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:08 ] Mynxee > korvin, are your concerns 0.0 related?
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:15 ] Vuk Lau > nope
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:24 ] Korvin > they are mostly balance related
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:29 ] Mynxee > ok
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:33 ] Korvin > and even high sec related
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:34 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:29:59 ] Mynxee > *** REMINDER please type end when you're done commenting.
[ 2010.06.06 19:30:22 ] Mynxee > done, korvin?
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:00 ] Korvin > ok, to summarise that - we had a lot of expansions, changed the core game balance, and we have some balance problems now, i think we need to discuss
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:03 ] Korvin > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:14 ] Mynxee > go dv
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > I think this specific roundtable request (korvins) will need some explanation when we send it to CCP. assuming that is included it should be good. end
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > knowing how easily CCP misunderstands issues from past experience
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:46 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:50 ] Mynxee > agreed that last summary is good. some specific examples might be better.
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:55 ] Mynxee > go trebor
[ 2010.06.06 19:31:59 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I was more asking about how micro/macro the issues ought to be.  From the CSM4 stuff, the micro items that I think are most interesting are Align to Bookmarks, Probe Bubble Patterns, Damaged Drones in Drone Bay.
[ 2010.06.06 19:32:05 ] Trebor Daehdoow > However it is unclear to me if those are significant enough for a roundtable. The Macro issue is a War-on-Lag update, if not handled by another presentation. [END]
[ 2010.06.06 19:32:45 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:32:47 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:32:52 ] Mynxee > go vuk
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:05 ] Vuk Lau > trebor those issue are simply yes/no/we will think about it
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:10 ] Vuk Lau > issues*
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:15 ] Vuk Lau > they dont require roundtables
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:38 ] Vuk Lau > ofc it samoe of the issues are going out of micro concept we can always mention it during related roundtable
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:39 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:46 ] Mynxee > go dv
[ 2010.06.06 19:33:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > I think things like probe bubble patterns (which I'd love) are overall pretty minor.. compared with stuff like Low Sec and such. Probe bubble patterns and issues like it dont have a lot of room for discussion and brainstorming.. its more a yes/no thing.
[ 2010.06.06 19:34:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > it'll also make more sense once you're in iceland
[ 2010.06.06 19:34:15 ] Dierdra Vaal > so if you think you want to do discuss something... speak up now
[ 2010.06.06 19:34:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:34:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:34:57 ] Mynxee > so we have 9 roundtable items now.
[ 2010.06.06 19:35:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:35:40 ] Mynxee > do we need to vote on a final list to submit or can that wait until next meeting? I'm afraid it will grow to outlandish proportions by then. :) Go DV.
[ 2010.06.06 19:35:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > do we want to discuss CCP's efforts on fighting the lags at all? I realise I'm possibly making the list longer sorry :(
[ 2010.06.06 19:36:07 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:36:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:36:29 ] Mynxee > go vuk. (and dv, my take would be yes, given the constant player complaints)
[ 2010.06.06 19:36:31 ] Vuk Lau > ah yes, how we could forgot about the lag. Btw its horrible maybe even worse after Tyrannis
[ 2010.06.06 19:36:32 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:36:46 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:37:07 ] Mynxee > add one more item: Lag Issues + Resolution Status
[ 2010.06.06 19:37:10 ] Mynxee > go trebor
[ 2010.06.06 19:37:19 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I did raise it in my brick-o-text above, and would also support the Lag RT... grin
[ 2010.06.06 19:37:21 ] Trebor Daehdoow > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:37:29 ] T'Amber > :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:37:54 ] Mynxee > so an even 10 items now :) we'lre going to keep CCP busy
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:06 ] Dierdra Vaal > well we have 2 days. 5 items a day doesnt seem too bad
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:23 ] Mynxee > i think it's fair. and a very nice, "serious" list as well.
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:30 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:30 ] Sokratesz > yes, good
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:39 ] Mynxee > touches on a LOT of player concerns which is important. go Vuk.
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:44 ] Vuk Lau > I would like to say one thing after the meeting is finished if its not a problem
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:44 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:38:59 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:00 ] Mynxee > of course you may.
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:00 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:05 ] Mynxee > go dV
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > to deal with the prioritising of the list, we can combine it with the other prioritising we need to do?
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > I dont think we need to vote on them as I suspect the outcome is 9/0 for all of them
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:37 ] Mynxee > go TD
[ 2010.06.06 19:39:41 ] TeaDaze > Also note that we might have less than all of our list depending on what CCP want to discuss with us (future expansion discussions etc) [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:40:08 ] Mynxee > acknowledged. also, i think prioritization is a reasonable idea in with the other list.
[ 2010.06.06 19:40:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > thats why we prioritise it right
[ 2010.06.06 19:40:52 ] T'Amber > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:40:55 ] Mynxee > any other comments on this agenda item?
[ 2010.06.06 19:40:58 ] Mynxee > go T
[ 2010.06.06 19:41:05 ] T'Amber > Are you going to vote on whether or not to vote? :) [/end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:41:21 ] Mynxee > right after we vote on whether to do that :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:41:33 ] T'Amber > kk sweet.
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:02 ] Mynxee > let me..for teadaze' sanity, repost the 10 items
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:12 ] Mynxee > -- Excellence-- CSM=Stakeholder: Expectations, Process Change-- 0.0 (Dominion, Caps/super caps, treaties)-- Roles/Grantable Roles Overhaul-- Low Sec: Possibilities/Future
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:18 ] Mynxee > -- Impact of previous expansions on game balance-- Factional Warfare-- Backlog: Approach to prioritization-- UI: What is in backlog, what is status?
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:24 ] Mynxee > -- Lag Issues + Resolution StatusEND
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:32 ] TeaDaze > thanks
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:48 ] Mynxee > i think that concludes this agenda item. moving on...
[ 2010.06.06 19:42:57 ] Mynxee > Other Business
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:03 ] Mynxee > Namely, meeting schedule.
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:16 ] Mynxee > vuk has asked about doing some mtgs on saturdays
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:25 ] Mynxee > i wonder about a 2nd saturday, 4th sunday schedule
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:32 ] Mynxee > and also at 16:00 rather than 18:00
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:35 ] Mynxee > thoughts?
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:41 ] Mynxee > go dv
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > either is fine for me. end
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:55 ] T'Amber > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:43:59 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:02 ] Mynxee > t'amber
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:06 ] T'Amber > although im only an alternate i will not be able to make any 16:00 meeting
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:10 ] T'Amber > [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:19 ] Mynxee > treb
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:21 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Either FBM [end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:43 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:44:52 ] Mynxee > go vuk
[ 2010.06.06 19:45:10 ] Vuk Lau > i can do any day/time, but I would prefer more saturdays anf 16:00, but if other cant then screw me
[ 2010.06.06 19:45:13 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 2010.06.06 19:45:29 ] Vuk Lau > oh I type like retard
[ 2010.06.06 19:45:40 ] Mynxee > lol
[ 2010.06.06 19:46:02 ] Mynxee > either day normally works for me but saturdays are prone to conflicts.
[ 2010.06.06 19:46:32 ] TeaDaze > Either sat/sun or 16/18 is fine with me, sort it amongst yourselves ;)
[ 2010.06.06 19:46:50 ] Mynxee > ok
[ 2010.06.06 19:46:56 ] Sokratesz > sun evening like this is best for me
[ 2010.06.06 19:47:04 ] T'Amber > +100 to soks :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:47:49 ] Mynxee > i propose this: we try 2nd sat/ 4thsun 16:30 for 2 months and see how it goes.
[ 2010.06.06 19:47:53 ] Sokratesz > anyway i desperately need sleep
[ 2010.06.06 19:48:05 ] Mynxee > we'r about done, Sok. thanks for staying with us.
[ 2010.06.06 19:48:09 ] Sokratesz > yesss
[ 2010.06.06 19:48:42 ] Mynxee > ok. any other business?
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:08 ] Sokratesz > yes, apologies for not being very active but fuck me this girl is absolutely amazing
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:17 ] T'Amber > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:23 ] Mynxee > go t'amber
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:25 ] T'Amber > what girl soks? [/end]
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:32 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:33 ] Mynxee > off topic, boys :)
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:41 ] Sokratesz > kezz2411 > [19:49:11] kezz2411 > LOG IN UR ALTS PCU IS ALMOST AT 60K
[ 2010.06.06 19:49:42 ] Mynxee > ========================MEETING ADJOURNED========================