CSM Meeting Minutes 5.005 raw log

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All this data is potentially out of date, and should be taken with a truckload of salt

CSM Meeting Minutes 5.005 raw log

Meeting took place on 25th July 2010

[ 16:33:12 ] Mynxee > .==================================CSM MEETING 005 CALLED TO ORDER==================================.
[ 16:33:23 ] Meissa Anunthiel > x
[ 16:33:31 ] Mynxee > x
[ 16:33:36 ] TeaDaze > x
[ 16:33:39 ] Trebor Daehdoow > x
[ 16:33:40 ] Vuk Lau > x
[ 16:33:41 ] mazzilliu > x
[ 16:34:06 ] Vuk Lau > (I can log on Sok's account if are missing the quorum)
[ 16:34:07 ] Dierdra Vaal > x
[ 16:34:22 ] Mynxee > vuk. i did not just read that.
[ 16:34:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > given john's warning about account sharing... lets not ;)
[ 16:34:26 ] Mynxee > we have a quorum.
[ 16:34:39 ] Mynxee > and sok notified me he'd be an hour late at least
[ 16:34:57 ] Mynxee > .================REMINDERS================.
[ 16:34:57 ] TeaDaze > Helen has notified ahead of time too
[ 16:35:09 ] Mynxee > yes, thanks TD
[ 16:35:20 ] Mynxee > No reminders from me. Anyone else?
[ 16:35:30 ] Meissa Anunthiel > helen isn't main so doesn't matter, but nice
[ 16:35:57 ] Mynxee > oh I do have 1 reminder
[ 16:36:18 ] Mynxee > this meeting has a hard stop at 18:00 so stay on topic and let's get everything dealt with efficiently.
[ 16:36:38 ] Vuk Lau > lets start?
[ 16:36:43 ] Mynxee > .================ISSUES================.
[ 16:36:55 ] Mynxee > Trebor: Scanning Colors http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scanning_Colors_%28CSM%29
[ 16:37:03 ] Mynxee > trebor you have the floor
[ 16:37:08 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Nothing to add to what's in the wiki page; this is a minimalist, low-hanging fruit UI proposal. [end]
[ 16:37:20 ] ALPHA12125 > loo
[ 16:37:27 ] Mynxee > hi alpha
[ 16:37:39 ] ALPHA12125 > sorry late am i needed ?
[ 16:37:39 ] Mynxee > any discussion, anyone?
[ 16:37:45 ] Vuk Lau > nope lets vote
[ 16:37:47 ] Trebor Daehdoow > [for alpha] http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scanning_Colors_%28CSM%29
[ 16:37:53 ] TeaDaze > You can vote alpha, we are only 7 at the moment
[ 16:38:02 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 16:38:09 ] Mynxee > DV go
[ 16:38:25 ] Sokratesz > /emote present from now on
[ 16:38:31 ] Dierdra Vaal > this is caused by that 'shadow' from probes - which also causes problems with the visibility of single-probe result bubbles
[ 16:38:39 ] Dierdra Vaal > I wonder if that shadow is really necessary?
[ 16:38:40 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 16:38:53 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 16:39:00 ] Mynxee > there has been a proposal regarding the shadows, i beleive?
[ 16:39:03 ] Mynxee > meissa go
[ 16:39:07 ] TeaDaze > (Trebor has dropped)
[ 16:39:13 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I don't care what it's caused by, and neither should we. We can't see the handles, show them. [/end]
[ 16:39:15 ] Mynxee > hes on the way back
[ 16:39:38 ] Mynxee > agree, show them. /end
[ 16:39:46 ] Korvin > o/
[ 16:39:53 ] Mynxee > hi Korvin
[ 16:40:08 ] Mynxee > we are discussing the first issue, scanning Colors, about to vote. any comments?
[ 16:40:09 ] Trebor Daehdoow > back
[ 16:40:18 ] Mynxee > wb
[ 16:40:32 ] TeaDaze > ( http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scanning_Colors_%28CSM%29 )
[ 16:40:50 ] Mynxee > we'll vote in a minute if no further discussion is offered
[ 16:41:06 ] Mynxee > /emote "MOM LOOKS" the latecomers
[ 16:41:15 ] TeaDaze > (We now have 10 people so Alpha isn't needed to vote, but is welcome to add to the discussions)
[ 16:41:18 ] Trebor Daehdoow > /emote wonders if he missed anything.
[ 16:41:23 ] Korvin > no objections
[ 16:41:26 ] Korvin > its easy
[ 16:41:28 ] Mynxee > no you didn't trebor
[ 16:41:38 ] Mynxee > let's vote. Yes or No on Scanning COlors?
[ 16:41:41 ] Mynxee > y
[ 16:41:41 ] Trebor Daehdoow > yes
[ 16:41:42 ] Meissa Anunthiel > yes
[ 16:41:43 ] Korvin > y
[ 16:41:44 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 16:41:46 ] mazzilliu > yes
[ 16:41:47 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes
[ 16:42:10 ] Vuk Lau > y
[ 16:42:18 ] TeaDaze > y
[ 16:42:26 ] TeaDaze > Passed 9/0
[ 16:42:32 ] Mynxee > Next Issue from Mazz: Devs Should Play the Game http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Devs_Should_Play_the_Game_%28CSM%29
[ 16:42:36 ] Mynxee > mazz, speak.
[ 16:42:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > ! (once mazz has introduced it)
[ 16:42:55 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 16:43:51 ] Mynxee > giving mazz a minute to type or prove she's payin attn
[ 16:44:01 ] mazzilliu > hey
[ 16:44:07 ] Korvin > !
[ 16:44:21 ] mazzilliu > ok basically the idea is that theres a perception out there that devs dont play the game
[ 16:44:29 ] mazzilliu > so, vuk go
[ 16:44:35 ] Dierdra Vaal > hey :(
[ 16:44:41 ] mazzilliu > oops
[ 16:44:42 ] Vuk Lau > DV was before
[ 16:44:44 ] Mynxee > dv is first
[ 16:44:46 ] mazzilliu > sorry, deedee go
[ 16:44:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > I see no point in this issue tbh. You cant enforce devs playing it, and even if CCP was somehow able to force their devs to play Eve, they wouldnt actually be invested in the game. ...
[ 16:44:49 ] mazzilliu > i didnt see it x]
[ 16:45:04 ] Mynxee > i'll call on the speakers, as CHair.
[ 16:45:18 ] Dierdra Vaal > additionally, only people invovled with game design would 'need' to play Eve, and it seems many of them do.
[ 16:45:31 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 16:45:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > I do think that if someone has no experience in 0.0, they should NOT be involved in 0.0 game design
[ 16:45:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > but thats not what this issue is about. I will not be supporting this issue.
[ 16:45:43 ] mazzilliu > viedra- i know full well theres no way we could enforce it or even get any good information about it, but i think that it would be healthy to bring up a discussion about it at the next summit
[ 16:45:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 16:45:49 ] Vuk Lau > I support this 100%, majority of ppl who needs to know EVE, are not playing it. This was something I was raising before in discussion about customer support
[ 16:45:52 ] Mynxee > vuk go
[ 16:45:54 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 16:45:56 ] Vuk Lau > its not even debatable
[ 16:46:00 ] Vuk Lau > they dont play their game
[ 16:46:17 ] mazzilliu > because i think that a lot of the time when we see devblogs coming out by people who are doing game balancing, sometimes they say really retarded stuff
[ 16:46:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 16:46:42 ] Vuk Lau > I heard a lot of excuses (even during lag discussion) how they cant enter 0.0 alliances
[ 16:46:45 ] Vuk Lau > thats crap
[ 16:46:46 ] mazzilliu > and i really doubt that a 0.0 fleet player would create a 0.0 sov system where you have to shoto down 100 million hp and shit
[ 16:46:46 ] Vuk Lau > also
[ 16:46:59 ] Vuk Lau > [16:45:09] Dierdra Vaal > additionally, only people invovled with game design would 'need' to play Eve, and it seems many of them do. - I disagree with this
[ 16:47:10 ] Vuk Lau > because doing missions is not really playing EVE
[ 16:47:17 ] mazzilliu > yes i think that they rely on spreadsheets for their info more than actual game experience
[ 16:47:24 ] mazzilliu > or solo play
[ 16:47:30 ] Mynxee > vuk are you done?
[ 16:47:34 ] Vuk Lau > by mistake of several CCP employees I found out what are their chars (you can extract this from minutes if u want)
[ 16:47:36 ] Vuk Lau > no I am not done
[ 16:47:44 ] Vuk Lau > and I checked them all
[ 16:47:49 ] Mynxee > ok just checking, as others are queued up.
[ 16:47:50 ] Vuk Lau > they are all empire carebears
[ 16:47:52 ] Vuk Lau > all
[ 16:48:07 ] Vuk Lau > anyway I dont want to turn this into endless discussion
[ 16:48:10 ] Vuk Lau > I support this 110%
[ 16:48:11 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 16:48:16 ] Mynxee > korvin go
[ 16:48:24 ] Korvin > This issue based on a false statement they doesn't, we don't have proofs to claim this, so this issue actually have no real reason, and we can't control it as a CSM.
[ 16:48:28 ] Korvin > [end]
[ 16:48:34 ] Mynxee > trebor go
[ 16:48:41 ] Trebor Daehdoow > If there were concrete suggestions on how to make dev participation easier and avoid metagaming issues, I could support the proposal; but as it currently stands, I cannot. [end]
[ 16:48:50 ] Mynxee > meissa go
[ 16:48:52 ] Meissa Anunthiel > Devs playing the game may not even help. By their own admission, most devs are carebears. Yet if you look at the state of industry in highsec, it's pretty pathetic. We may encourage them as much as we want, that'll have to come from them either way.../e
[ 16:49:01 ] Mynxee > dv go
[ 16:49:02 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 16:49:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > its true that devs may say dumb things, but if you'd force CCP Nozh to play eve, he still wouldnt really get to know the game unless he WANTED to. forcing someone to play wont....
[ 16:49:09 ] ALPHA12125 > !
[ 16:49:33 ] mazzilliu > !
[ 16:49:39 ] Dierdra Vaal > ...suddenly make them realise you cant target paint sieged dreads. Only being genuinely interested and invested in the game will, and there's no way to enforce that.
[ 16:49:40 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 16:49:41 ] Meissa Anunthiel > (poor nozh, he made such an easy target of himself)
[ 16:49:49 ] Mynxee > vuk go
[ 16:50:12 ] Vuk Lau > I know we cant change them
[ 16:50:19 ] Vuk Lau > but I want this issue to pass
[ 16:50:25 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 16:50:34 ] Vuk Lau > cause I know a hell lot of ppl being pissed cause devs doesnt know their game
[ 16:50:38 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 16:50:46 ] Mynxee > i would like to know that devs played teh game, and feel discussion about it would be good to have at the December summit but don't feel its an appropriate proposal idea as it is not directly related to a game change. end.
[ 16:50:49 ] Mynxee > alpha go
[ 16:51:13 ] ALPHA12125 > [16:48:44] Trebor Daehdoow > If there were concrete suggestions on how to make dev participation easier and avoid metagaming issues....  i dont think there are big metagaming issues anymore, alot of stuff is player controlled...
[ 16:51:35 ] ALPHA12125 > and what you can get away with is rather limited now without people noticing...end
[ 16:51:44 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 16:51:47 ] Mynxee > mazz go
[ 16:52:11 ] mazzilliu > in order to bring the issue in december, we have to pass the issue here.  i agree that theres nothing we can "do" about it, but i think simply having a discussion about it will make ccp move in a positive direction
[ 16:52:18 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 16:52:31 ] Korvin > !
[ 16:52:34 ] Mynxee > we can raise any topic for discussion at the summit even if its not a passed proposal. end.
[ 16:52:38 ] Mynxee > tea go
[ 16:52:41 ] TeaDaze > I support the sentiment behind the proposal, but I understand it is very hard to actually encorage more devs to play... After a day of working on Eve I can see many devs wanting to play other things.[end]
[ 16:52:54 ] Mynxee > vuk go
[ 16:52:56 ] Vuk Lau > there are no metagame issues, as I already wrote on internal forums, they are being hostages of one idiot (t20) and are using that as excuse to be lazy
[ 16:53:19 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 16:53:21 ] Vuk Lau > tbh if Mark (Abathur) wanted to still lead his corp or alliance even while working could they really stop it?
[ 16:53:30 ] Vuk Lau > of lets say I start working for CCP
[ 16:53:37 ] Vuk Lau > who could stop me to lead my alliance?
[ 16:53:47 ] Vuk Lau > its just up to ppl being responsible or not
[ 16:54:06 ] Vuk Lau > and you can leak confidential informations to anyone if you really want to
[ 16:54:07 ] Vuk Lau > end
[ 16:54:15 ] Mynxee > korvin go
[ 16:54:29 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 16:54:40 ] Korvin > IMO we dont need an hour in our schedule to discuss it, this issue goes to several CCPers maybe, not all CCP [end]
[ 16:54:57 ] Mynxee > meissa go
[ 16:55:03 ] Meissa Anunthiel > There are metagaming issues, but that's NOT an excuse not to play in 0.0. One can perfectly well be a happy grunt in 0.0 and have fun. The restrictions are in place to make sure CCP isn't even described as favoring one side over the other.
[ 16:55:27 ] Meissa Anunthiel > So there's 2 things. I don't want the restrictions removed, and I think they can perfectly well take a meaningful part in theg ame with the restrictions as they are.
[ 16:55:42 ] Meissa Anunthiel > In addition, I don't think raising this as an issue is going to accomplish anything, we already made that point
[ 16:55:44 ] Meissa Anunthiel > [/end]
[ 16:55:47 ] Mynxee > trebor go
[ 16:55:49 ] Trebor Daehdoow > /emote is reminded of the dilemma of Caesar's wife... [end]
[ 16:55:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 16:55:58 ] Mynxee > let's vote on this
[ 16:56:04 ] mazzilliu > votin g yes
[ 16:56:08 ] Mynxee > 1 last comment dv
[ 16:56:13 ] Mynxee > hold the vote
[ 16:56:18 ] Mynxee > til dv finishes
[ 16:56:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > I just want to say that most of you agree that we cant really enforce this...
[ 16:56:35 ] Dierdra Vaal > which means all this issue is, is empty symbol politics
[ 16:56:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > which I have no desire of being involved in.
[ 16:56:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 16:56:47 ] Vuk Lau > we cant enforce anything
[ 16:56:48 ] Mynxee > VOte Devs Should Play the Game Y or N.
[ 16:56:50 ] Vuk Lau > y
[ 16:56:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > n
[ 16:56:53 ] mazzilliu > y
[ 16:56:54 ] Korvin > n
[ 16:56:54 ] Trebor Daehdoow > nay
[ 16:56:55 ] Mynxee > n
[ 16:56:57 ] Sokratesz > n
[ 16:57:00 ] TeaDaze > y
[ 16:57:21 ] Meissa Anunthiel > Voting Yes. don't want this proposal to pass, but I don't want to see it portrayed as us not wanting devs to play.
[ 16:57:31 ] mazzilliu > now i will have ammunition to say that the csm voted that devs should not play the game
[ 16:57:34 ] mazzilliu > :D
[ 16:57:37 ] TeaDaze > failed, 5 against, 4 for
[ 16:58:04 ] Mynxee > /emote acknowledges meissa's statement but believes that the proposal is not worded propoerly for the intent desired.
[ 16:58:07 ] Meissa Anunthiel > that's pretty idiotic mazz. Dychotomies suck, you should know better :p
[ 16:58:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > the csm just voted that we dont want to force the devs to play
[ 16:58:25 ] Trebor Daehdoow > /emote agrees with Mynxee
[ 16:58:32 ] Meissa Anunthiel > what DV says
[ 16:58:35 ] Dierdra Vaal > not that we want to force the devs not to play
[ 16:58:36 ] Mynxee > we might as well vote that we don't want thunderstorms to ruin our picnics
[ 16:58:39 ] Dierdra Vaal > its a crucial difference
[ 16:58:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > anyway, next
[ 16:58:58 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Actually, we should vote the other way - devs should be forbidden to play until the CSM backlog is empty... grin
[ 16:59:02 ] Mynxee > we cannot control the outcome of this proposal in any way. end of discussion.
[ 16:59:23 ] Mynxee > Next Issue from Dierdra: Neutral Orcas in High Sec http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Neutral_orcas_in_high_sec_wars_%28CSM%29
[ 16:59:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > :)
[ 16:59:34 ] Dierdra Vaal > In high sec pvp (war decs mostly) neutral (alt) orcas can be used to assist someone (allowing a pilot at war to switch ships mid-pvp), without that orca becoming flagged or vulnerable. This is inconsistent with other game rules regarding assisting ...
[ 16:59:40 ] Dierdra Vaal > a flagged pilot.
[ 16:59:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > This proposal suggest to change the mechanics so either the orca would become flagged or players can no longer use the orca services while under an aggression timer. end
[ 16:59:55 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 17:00:00 ] Dierdra Vaal > treb
[ 17:00:08 ] Mynxee > 0.0
[ 17:00:09 ] Trebor Daehdoow > I personally think the second solution is the less exploit-prone.
[ 17:00:10 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 17:00:13 ] Trebor Daehdoow > [emd]
[ 17:00:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree and I put that in the wiki :)
[ 17:00:22 ] Dierdra Vaal > Sok
[ 17:00:24 ] Sokratesz > Disallow people with an aggression timer to use the corporate hangar and ship maintenance bay on an Orca
[ 17:00:25 ] Mynxee > go sok
[ 17:00:31 ] Sokratesz > that would open up a whole can of worms
[ 17:00:40 ] Sokratesz > carriers can already do the same in lowsec
[ 17:00:44 ] Sokratesz > do yo uwant to ban that?
[ 17:00:47 ] ALPHA12125 > !
[ 17:00:49 ] Sokratesz > what about 0.0
[ 17:00:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > I'm talking about the orca only
[ 17:01:08 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 17:01:09 ] Dierdra Vaal > as they can exist in high sec - in low sec and 0.0 there is no issue with this
[ 17:01:09 ] Sokratesz > i think it should be adjusted
[ 17:01:23 ] Mynxee > protocol clarification: is it the Chair's responsibility or the issue presenter's responsibility to call on those requesting to speak?
[ 17:01:24 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 17:01:25 ] Sokratesz > to only be disallowed in highsec, not only for the orca, because there are highsec carriers also
[ 17:01:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > presenters.
[ 17:01:49 ] Mynxee > k *sits back and watches*
[ 17:01:54 ] Dierdra Vaal > yeah but you cant use carriers in high sec in pvp
[ 17:01:56 ] Sokratesz > so make it valid for all ship hangars in highsec, not only for the orca
[ 17:02:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > or they become vulnerable for petition to be moved
[ 17:02:12 ] Dierdra Vaal > so its really only orcas
[ 17:02:29 ] Sokratesz > hmm i could see a few ways in which ccp could totally fuck up this patch
[ 17:02:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > Alpha
[ 17:02:32 ] ALPHA12125 > nvm alredy clarified
[ 17:02:37 ] Sokratesz > but aight, [end]
[ 17:02:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > meissa
[ 17:02:49 ] Meissa Anunthiel > disallow people from with a yellow or red timer from boarding ships in space. That should be more than enough. Otherwise orcas can just eject the ships and people will board them. or a neutral alt will board them/eject/leave them in space.
[ 17:02:52 ] Meissa Anunthiel > [/end]
[ 17:02:56 ] TeaDaze > (It has always been the chair's job to control the meeting, at least it was for csm4...)
[ 17:03:00 ] Korvin > ! and what about the wardec games? there is no agression timer when wardeced
[ 17:03:13 ] Mynxee > (agreed, Teadaze)
[ 17:03:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > It wasnt for CSM 1 through 3
[ 17:03:41 ] Dierdra Vaal > BTW, I agree that if CCP dont properly test this suddenly ALL bays in the game may become inaccessible during pvp, but I'm giving ccp the benefit of the doubt and assume QA is doing its job.
[ 17:04:03 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 17:04:03 ] Dierdra Vaal > Miessa, I can add that to the issue as a 3rd solution if that is ok with you
[ 17:04:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > ?
[ 17:04:31 ] Meissa Anunthiel > yes, but korvin's comment made it seem like my solution is incomplete (wardec = no timer)
[ 17:04:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > you are under an aggression timer during wars
[ 17:04:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > docking timers, etc
[ 17:04:52 ] Mynxee > (after this issue vote, Chair will always be responsible for calling on speakers; presenters can simply focus on the discussion. meanwhile, DV can handle this one through the vote.)
[ 17:05:36 ] Korvin > docking timers is a best solution imo
[ 17:05:38 ] Dierdra Vaal > trebor
[ 17:05:42 ] Trebor Daehdoow > /emote is inclined to agree with Sok (and Mynxee can delegate as she pleases). [end]
[ 17:06:21 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 17:06:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > TD
[ 17:06:35 ] TeaDaze > My concern is that both sides in a war dec can use the current mechanic. If you (for instance) want to swap from your hulk to a combat ship when pointed you can if the orca is neutral or not. Add this and then it breaks the mechanic for corp orcas too
[ 17:06:48 ] TeaDaze > [end]
[ 17:07:56 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 17:07:56 ] Dierdra Vaal > so do you feel this should be allowed for in-corp (and therefore flagged) orcas?
[ 17:08:19 ] TeaDaze > I think it should flag not be banned
[ 17:08:26 ] TeaDaze > I.e. he first solution [end]
[ 17:08:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > I can amend the wiki to emphasise this should only affect neutral orcas
[ 17:08:46 ] Trebor Daehdoow > -! nvm
[ 17:08:50 ] Dierdra Vaal > for solutions 2 and 3
[ 17:09:13 ] Dierdra Vaal > sok
[ 17:09:15 ] Sokratesz > i think we should simply present the problem and let CCP come up with a solution that is both fair and easy to implement into the current mechanics. I am not satisfied with the two solutions given in the proposal but will vote yes either way. [end]
[ 17:09:28 ] Mynxee > !
[ 17:09:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > mynxee
[ 17:10:06 ] Korvin > !
[ 17:10:09 ] Mynxee > I agree in principle with the reasoning for needing a change although am unsure about solutions given and tend to agree with Sok regarding approach.
[ 17:10:12 ] Mynxee > end
[ 17:10:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > CCP usually figures out their own thing anyway :)
[ 17:10:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > krovin
[ 17:10:25 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 17:10:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > korvin*
[ 17:11:15 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 17:11:18 ] Korvin > as a possible solution - we can add the restriction to access ship hangar while docking|gate timer stops from docking/jump
[ 17:11:38 ] Dierdra Vaal > that was the intention, but I will clarify that :)
[ 17:11:40 ] Vuk Lau > (guys we should speed up)
[ 17:11:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > TD
[ 17:11:47 ] TeaDaze > To sum up my feelings. Basically we need flashpoints to create combat and so we should encorage people to swap from a pve to a pvp ship and have pew pew rather than outright ban some of these options. Any chance for potential escalation is great [end]
[ 17:12:16 ] Korvin > !
[ 17:12:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree, but to switch from 1 pvp ship to another when you're almost dead, using an invulnerable swapping station is not conductive to fun
[ 17:12:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > treb
[ 17:12:35 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Suggest changing "There are two" to "Here are two" and vote. [end]
[ 17:13:02 ] Mynxee > let's wrap this up quickly, we have much more to cover in 45 mins
[ 17:13:12 ] Korvin > they will just dont agro on a pve ship, and there will be no problem [end]
[ 17:13:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok, lets vote then
[ 17:13:51 ] Trebor Daehdoow > yea
[ 17:13:56 ] Korvin > y
[ 17:13:57 ] TeaDaze > (If they swap from 1 nearly dead pvp ship to a new one and flag the orca in the process you get more targets ;))
[ 17:13:59 ] TeaDaze > y
[ 17:14:03 ] Mynxee > y
[ 17:14:04 ] Trebor Daehdoow > (that's my vote, not my opinion on voting)
[ 17:14:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > y
[ 17:14:05 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 17:14:09 ] mazzilliu > y
[ 17:14:13 ] Meissa Anunthiel > y
[ 17:14:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree, but that is currently not the case - hence the issue :)
[ 17:14:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > w00t
[ 17:14:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > y
[ 17:14:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > o wait I voted already
[ 17:14:40 ] Dierdra Vaal > I count... 8/0?
[ 17:14:52 ] TeaDaze > passed 8/0 waiting on Vuk
[ 17:15:00 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Quick alpha, vote!
[ 17:15:04 ] TeaDaze > who has dropped...
[ 17:15:15 ] ALPHA12125 > y
[ 17:15:18 ] Dierdra Vaal > wewt
[ 17:15:19 ] TeaDaze > passed 9/0
[ 17:15:39 ] Mynxee > NEXT ISSUE: (Mazz) Crowdsourcing Ship Balancing http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ship_balancing_%28CSM%29
[ 17:15:39 ] ALPHA12125 > vuk dropped
[ 17:15:54 ] Mynxee > you have the floor Mazz.
[ 17:16:17 ] ALPHA12125 > !
[ 17:16:22 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 17:16:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 17:17:18 ] Mynxee > just as a note: when i call on a presenter, they have 1 minute to start speaking, or I will start calling on other delegates for discussion.
[ 17:17:39 ] Mynxee > i expect people to be paying 100% attn to this meeting ESPECIALLY when they have issues on the agenda
[ 17:17:48 ] mazzilliu > ok
[ 17:17:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > pre-typing is your friend :)
[ 17:18:08 ] Mynxee > saying "1 second" is yoru friend.
[ 17:18:12 ] mazzilliu > well the issue is just saying that the ship balancing should be done a little differently
[ 17:18:18 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 17:18:26 ] mazzilliu > should be done more often, in smaller increments, and relying more on player input
[ 17:18:39 ] mazzilliu > i think overall its pretty good though
[ 17:18:44 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 17:18:51 ] Mynxee > alpha go
[ 17:18:55 ] ALPHA12125 > this is something i campaigned for aswell. it should happen once a month and mainly focus on stat changes of modules and ships. this allows smaller changes and easier ballancing... 100% supported
[ 17:19:05 ] Korvin > !
[ 17:19:17 ] ALPHA12125 > even more often like 14 days might be possible...end
[ 17:19:26 ] Mynxee > treb go
[ 17:19:29 ] Trebor Daehdoow > While player feedback is good, it might also be useful to datamine killmails in order to get some idea of what is popular and what works/doesn't work (both for ships and modules), and use that as one possible input to micro-tweaking. [end]
[ 17:19:42 ] Mynxee > dv go
[ 17:19:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > It seems like a good issue, I'm just a bit confused by what the 'crowdsourcing' part of it is. There seems to be no crowdsourcing involved? Could you clarify that maz. end
[ 17:20:21 ] Mynxee > *waits for clarification so that the minutes are easier for teh Sec'y to deal with*
[ 17:20:42 ] mazzilliu > !
[ 17:21:13 ] Mynxee > mazz, to answer DV's question
[ 17:21:22 ] TeaDaze > !
[ 17:21:45 ] mazzilliu > what i meant by that is that i want ccp to rely more on player feedback for their balancing.  how stuff works sometimes ends up the opposite of how the devs intended and it seems like they dont notice it even tho its obvious to players
[ 17:21:59 ] mazzilliu > maybe crowdsourcing isnt the right word im not sure on that so i left it out of the wiki title
[ 17:22:00 ] Mynxee > (i have meissa, korvin, and td lined up following that clarification)
[ 17:22:04 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 17:22:15 ] Mynxee > meissa
[ 17:22:17 ] Meissa Anunthiel > Balancing a ship doesn't happen ex nihil, it's always in the context of what other ships can do, so doing "smaller scale" balancing is a contradiction in terms. Except to repair blatant issues. And I certainly don't want the crowd to decide.
[ 17:22:42 ] ALPHA12125 > !
[ 17:22:42 ] mazzilliu > !
[ 17:23:08 ] Meissa Anunthiel > So while I agree with you that they should listen to player raised balancing questions (ship A having issues, whatever), I don't think trial-and-error small increments is the way to go, else it ends up being a mess... [/end]
[ 17:23:13 ] Mynxee > korvin
[ 17:23:17 ] Korvin > aslong as i fully support that CCP should pay greater attantion to the balance issues, i think they shouldn't limit their time to test it any possible ways twice before it goes to TQ, the balance process should be constant and nonstopable.
[ 17:23:52 ] T'Amber > Hi guys, just got home from work :)
[ 17:24:07 ] Korvin > as for the players wishes for the ships boost, sadly they are not allways reflect the real balance problems
[ 17:24:11 ] Korvin > [end]
[ 17:24:16 ] Mynxee > td
[ 17:24:19 ] TeaDaze > My concern is that if based purely on player feedback that popular (or infamous ships) might get tweaked every few months and unpopular ships will not. Look at how many people still want to nerf falcons etc.
[ 17:24:27 ] TeaDaze > One of the problems with lots of small changes more often is that it becomes really tricky for players to keep up.[end]
[ 17:24:31 ] Mynxee > alpha go
[ 17:24:33 ] ALPHA12125 > [17:22:24] Meissa Anunthiel > Balancing a ship doesn't happen ex nihil, it's always in the context of what other ships can do, ..... this is not correct. talks with devs on sisi confirmed that they dont even have mission statements for each ship...
[ 17:24:35 ] Meissa Anunthiel > (T'amber barges into the meeting room, oblivious to anyting current happening and yells: "honey I'm home"... Grand)
[ 17:24:40 ] Trebor Daehdoow > /emote pulls the seat from under Alpha's ass, hands it to T'Amber...
[ 17:24:51 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:24:54 ] ALPHA12125 > they do out of the blue engineering most of the time and dont have any global concept where they want to go with each ship
[ 17:24:55 ] ALPHA12125 > ebnd
[ 17:25:01 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 17:25:04 ] Mynxee > mazz go
[ 17:25:35 ] mazzilliu > i agree that players should not have final says on what ships should be boosted, it would be chaotic.  i am pretty sure if ccp took player feedback into account it would be something like how the CSM gives them feedback
[ 17:25:46 ] mazzilliu > theres no way we dictate anything either but we're still giving feedback
[ 17:25:51 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 17:26:01 ] Mynxee > tamber go
[ 17:26:06 ] T'Amber > Sorry I was boss in the casino tonight and couldn't get out any sooner - didn't mean to barge in or steal seats
[ 17:26:07 ] T'Amber > [end]
[ 17:26:19 ] Mynxee > meissa go
[ 17:26:22 ] Meissa Anunthiel > True Alpha, they may not have mission statements for ships, but balancing one ship her and one ship there disregarding what other ships do won't work. And it's checking all the ships that take time
[ 17:26:31 ] Meissa Anunthiel > s/her/here
[ 17:26:35 ] Korvin > !
[ 17:26:42 ] Mynxee > in my view the proposal is reasonably vague about HOW such "crowdsourcing" shoudl be done or the role it shoudl play. end.
[ 17:26:51 ] Meissa Anunthiel > so asking for one ship is the same thing as asking all ships of that same class/category [/end]
[ 17:26:51 ] Mynxee > whoops sorry meissa.
[ 17:26:57 ] Mynxee > korvin go
[ 17:27:01 ] Meissa Anunthiel > it's fine mynxee :p
[ 17:27:42 ] Korvin > in any case, my point of view is - CCP should add some resources to the game balancing, and this proposal is good enought to manage that
[ 17:27:46 ] Korvin > [end]
[ 17:28:02 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 17:28:03 ] Mynxee > I think we are ready for a vote. *looks at clock*
[ 17:28:09 ] Mynxee > one last comment meissa
[ 17:28:16 ] Meissa Anunthiel > nvm
[ 17:28:19 ] Meissa Anunthiel > let's vote
[ 17:28:21 ] mazzilliu > y
[ 17:28:23 ] Meissa Anunthiel > n
[ 17:28:26 ] Korvin > y
[ 17:28:28 ] Sokratesz > n
[ 17:28:29 ] Mynxee > y
[ 17:28:32 ] Trebor Daehdoow > y
[ 17:28:32 ] ALPHA12125 > y
[ 17:28:34 ] TeaDaze > y
[ 17:28:40 ] T'Amber > what ever alpha says
[ 17:29:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > si
[ 17:29:09 ] TeaDaze > passes 7 for, 2 against
[ 17:29:13 ] Mynxee > tamber, don't contribute meaningless comments like that
[ 17:29:22 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:29:25 ] Mynxee > when we are voting
[ 17:29:25 ] ALPHA12125 > (how is the alt rule handled ?)
[ 17:29:38 ] Meissa Anunthiel > topmost alt in vote gets available seat
[ 17:29:38 ] T'Amber > I have no idea what you are talking about, and i got here half way
[ 17:29:46 ] T'Amber > so being first alternate, i get the choice
[ 17:29:52 ] Meissa Anunthiel > people who don't participate in the conversation about a topic don't vote
[ 17:29:54 ] ALPHA12125 > (is t'amber takling ove since he is before me?)
[ 17:29:56 ] Mynxee > ok then say Y
[ 17:30:04 ] T'Amber > so its better if alpha votes. its not so its not meaningless at all
[ 17:30:09 ] Dierdra Vaal > in the past we had the issue that alts can only be replaced (by a main or 'higher' alt) AFTER the current issue has passed.
[ 17:30:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > which means that since t'amber came in halfway through the issue, alpha would be able to vote
[ 17:30:31 ] ALPHA12125 > ahh kk
[ 17:30:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > but for the next issue, amber takes over
[ 17:30:34 ] Mynxee > i agree with this, we've had the discussion before. if you weren't present for an entire discussion, you don't vote o n it.
[ 17:30:39 ] T'Amber > ok we didnt do that last time, i know now it wont come up again
[ 17:30:40 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Sounds fair
[ 17:30:53 ] Mynxee > moving on...
[ 17:30:59 ] T'Amber > i also agree, which is why i said what i did. thanks.
[ 17:31:01 ] Mynxee > (Mazz) API Security & Development Priority Changes http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/API_security_and_development_priority_changes_%28CSM%29
[ 17:31:12 ] Mynxee > mazz, present your thoughts please
[ 17:31:18 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 17:31:34 ] mazzilliu > the issue is that the api should release the info that is given out by eve gate so people don;t have to scrape eve gate for stuff like evemails
[ 17:31:43 ] mazzilliu > also more granularity with permissions
[ 17:31:49 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 17:31:54 ] Mynxee > dv go
[ 17:32:13 ] Dierdra Vaal > I was thinking of bringing up this issue, but wanted to consult with major API developers (Dotlan, evemon, etc) before making a big API issue. If I do that in the future, would you guys feel that would fall under this issue?
[ 17:32:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > I'd like to know before committing time to it. end
[ 17:32:46 ] Mynxee > probably, DV, yes. END
[ 17:32:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 17:32:59 ] Mynxee > also got workd that vuk lost internet so he will not likely return this meeting.
[ 17:33:04 ] Mynxee > dv go
[ 17:33:22 ] Dierdra Vaal > in that case, maz would you be willing to cooperate at a later date to amend this issue with more specific API requests from the API developers?
[ 17:33:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > as its currently reasonably vague. end
[ 17:33:46 ] mazzilliu > yeah deedee i think that would be best
[ 17:33:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok cool
[ 17:33:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > thumbs up from me
[ 17:34:14 ] Mynxee > (also my apologies for taking issues out of order, DV. Yours will be next)
[ 17:34:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > ?
[ 17:34:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > I dont have any more do I?
[ 17:34:31 ] Dierdra Vaal > oh wait I do
[ 17:34:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > v0v
[ 17:34:33 ] mazzilliu > let's drop this issue and move on, DD and i will bring this up a later meeting
[ 17:34:41 ] Mynxee > alright
[ 17:34:46 ] Dierdra Vaal > (I'd be happy to vote on it tbh)
[ 17:35:14 ] Mynxee > if we vote, are you comfortable about amendments later?
[ 17:35:19 ] mazzilliu > yeah
[ 17:35:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > lets vote then :)
[ 17:35:27 ] mazzilliu > voting yes
[ 17:35:42 ] TeaDaze > y - amend it later though
[ 17:35:46 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes
[ 17:35:49 ] Mynxee > y
[ 17:35:51 ] Korvin > i dont see a proposal to vote
[ 17:35:51 ] Trebor Daehdoow > y
[ 17:36:04 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 17:36:06 ] Dierdra Vaal > the changes wont be controversial, just more concrete examples of the data API devs would like to see
[ 17:36:07 ] T'Amber > Yes
[ 17:36:13 ] Meissa Anunthiel > y
[ 17:36:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/API_security_and_development_priority_changes_%28CSM%29 <-- this issue
[ 17:36:46 ] TeaDaze > Passed 8 for waiting on Korvin though
[ 17:37:28 ] Korvin > "Do more stuff with the API" nice proposal, we'll take it :D
[ 17:37:33 ] Korvin > well, why not
[ 17:38:13 ] Mynxee > Korvin, you are voting Y ?
[ 17:38:17 ] Korvin > sure
[ 17:38:21 ] TeaDaze > Passed 9 for
[ 17:38:35 ] Mynxee > (Dierdra Vaal) Courier contract improvements http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Courier_contract_improvements_%28CSM%29
[ 17:38:38 ] Dierdra Vaal > Basically, there's a lot of stuff that could be done to improve courier contracts, to encourage the courier market/profession and make life a bit easier for those engaged in this. These are also some improvements for corporations and how corp courier...
[ 17:38:40 ] Mynxee > DV Present!
[ 17:38:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > contracts are handled.
[ 17:38:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 17:39:07 ] Mynxee > i'm in support of this proposal and will be voting Y.
[ 17:39:15 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:39:21 ] Mynxee > tamber go
[ 17:39:24 ] T'Amber > i'm in support of this proposal and will be voting Y.
[ 17:39:28 ] T'Amber > [end[
[ 17:39:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > maybe we can just vote then? if people have nothing to discuss..
[ 17:39:50 ] T'Amber > (Is discussion really necessary on this topic)
[ 17:40:00 ] Mynxee > let's vote
[ 17:40:04 ] T'Amber > Y
[ 17:40:04 ] mazzilliu > y
[ 17:40:05 ] Korvin > y
[ 17:40:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes
[ 17:40:06 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 17:40:09 ] Trebor Daehdoow > y
[ 17:40:10 ] Mynxee > y
[ 17:40:18 ] TeaDaze > y
[ 17:40:21 ] Meissa Anunthiel > y
[ 17:40:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > bazinga
[ 17:40:26 ] TeaDaze > passes 9 for
[ 17:40:41 ] Mynxee > (Mazz) Create Lottery Subforum in EVE Marketplace http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Create_a_new_subsection_for_lotteries_in_EVE_Marketplace%28CSM%29
[ 17:40:46 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:40:47 ] Mynxee > mazz, present
[ 17:40:50 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 17:40:51 ] mazzilliu > T'amber made me do it
[ 17:40:53 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 17:41:00 ] T'Amber > Too much spahm and crap in the sell forums!
[ 17:41:02 ] T'Amber > end!
[ 17:41:05 ] Mynxee > tamber
[ 17:41:09 ] Mynxee > wait til i call on you
[ 17:41:11 ] Mynxee > dv go
[ 17:41:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > I know T'amber really wants this, but I looked at the forum and the amount of lotteries didnt seem too bad tbh. end
[ 17:41:32 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:41:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=109595 this is the forum in question I believe
[ 17:41:38 ] Mynxee > that was my question. how many lotteries are there? end.
[ 17:41:41 ] Mynxee > go tamber
[ 17:41:55 ] T'Amber > I counted last weekend, almost every 2nd and 3rd post
[ 17:42:03 ] T'Amber > however.
[ 17:42:22 ] T'Amber > The issue is, that lottery posts by design get bumped as often as possible
[ 17:42:37 ] T'Amber > And people who are selling stuff in the forums have a hard time being able to stay on the first page
[ 17:42:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > atm 7 of the 24 threads on the front page are lotto's
[ 17:42:51 ] T'Amber > as you are only allowed one "BUMP" a day this will stay the same until lotteries have been moved
[ 17:43:10 ] T'Amber > So, lotto posts get around this, by getting other people to confirm their purchases
[ 17:43:18 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 17:43:21 ] T'Amber > which is completely legit. but its unfair on people using the sell forums for items.
[ 17:43:24 ] T'Amber > [end]
[ 17:43:30 ] Mynxee > treb go
[ 17:43:42 ] Trebor Daehdoow > if this is done, it should probably be a "lotteries and contests" section [end]
[ 17:43:55 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:44:21 ] T'Amber > nvm -!
[ 17:44:30 ] Mynxee > can we vote on this now?
[ 17:44:37 ] Mynxee > it seems a minor issue
[ 17:44:41 ] Korvin > y
[ 17:44:52 ] Mynxee > y
[ 17:44:54 ] mazzilliu > voting yes
[ 17:44:55 ] Meissa Anunthiel > y
[ 17:44:56 ] Trebor Daehdoow > y
[ 17:44:59 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 17:44:59 ] T'Amber > y
[ 17:45:01 ] TeaDaze > y - very easy change
[ 17:45:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes
[ 17:45:24 ] TeaDaze > passed 9 for
[ 17:45:32 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:45:33 ] T'Amber > Thankyou.
[ 17:45:44 ] Mynxee > (Mazz) Clarify Actual Changes for EULA Updates http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Clarify_the_actual_changes_when_updating_the_eula_%28CSM%29
[ 17:45:57 ] Mynxee > easy one, i will support it. makes perfect sense. end. Mazz, present.
[ 17:46:11 ] mazzilliu > i dont think this needs description more than what the title says
[ 17:46:13 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 17:46:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 17:46:28 ] Mynxee > dv go
[ 17:46:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > I think the reason this happens is purely a legal thing (clients have to re-sign the agreement when the product changes), but this change should make the eula a lot more usable. end
[ 17:47:25 ] Mynxee > vote Y or N on summarzing EULA changes per the Proposal
[ 17:47:29 ] Mynxee > y
[ 17:47:35 ] Trebor Daehdoow > y
[ 17:47:42 ] mazzilliu > y
[ 17:47:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > y
[ 17:47:44 ] TeaDaze > y - Though I haven't had eula scroll in ages
[ 17:47:47 ] T'Amber > Y
[ 17:47:56 ] Korvin > y
[ 17:48:02 ] Meissa Anunthiel > y
[ 17:48:49 ] Sokratesz > y
[ 17:49:21 ] TeaDaze > Passed 9/0
[ 17:49:28 ] Mynxee > .================OTHER BUSINESS================.
[ 17:50:02 ] Sokratesz > !
[ 17:50:05 ] Mynxee > just a quick update on CCP deliverables: delegates have taken responsibility to follow up, that is being done. I will update the status document later and post it. No deliveries yet though except eh draft minutes
[ 17:50:13 ] Mynxee > end. Sok go
[ 17:50:26 ] Sokratesz > Stephan is hereby awarded the wall-of-text-award of the month July for his contributions to the PCgamer interview
[ 17:50:27 ] Sokratesz > end
[ 17:50:57 ] Mynxee > CSM community activities: I am doing a low sec crowdsourcing thing http://criminallowsec.ideascale.com/
[ 17:51:10 ] Mynxee > we have had sevearl media interviews post-summit and post-minutes
[ 17:51:16 ] Mynxee > any other community aactivities?
[ 17:51:47 ] Mynxee > ok, re CSM activities going forward
[ 17:51:47 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:51:56 ] Mynxee > tamber go
[ 17:52:21 ] T'Amber > I have some pro-csm stuff planned but i'm waiting for a reply from Selene for funding before we talk to you mynxee, and then to everyone else
[ 17:52:37 ] T'Amber > after the meeting possibly we can arrange a meeting please.
[ 17:52:39 ] T'Amber > [end[
[ 17:52:41 ] Mynxee > i would prefer you talk about these things to all of us, on the internal forums.
[ 17:52:52 ] Mynxee > not just to me. end.
[ 17:52:59 ] T'Amber > thats fine
[ 17:53:12 ] Mynxee > re CSM going forward: players have asked about whether issue raising is worth the effort. I say yes, as it is a part of what we do...but only a part as our role evolves and continues to evolve over time. comments?
[ 17:53:51 ] T'Amber > !
[ 17:54:08 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Agree; though I am going to concentrate on low-hanging fruit proposals because given what we know of dev allocations they seem to be the things that can sneak into the cracks better.
[ 17:54:20 ] Mynxee > tamber go
[ 17:54:28 ] Trebor Daehdoow > (oops, sorry, spoke out of turn)
[ 17:54:34 ] T'Amber > bringing up new topics is probably a waste of time atm, what about making a post with links to all the major issues that have been passed and are in the backbone so that people can contribute their ideas on those that actually have a small chance as it
[ 17:54:35 ] Mynxee > sokay
[ 17:54:48 ] T'Amber > only im not allowed trebs X)
[ 17:55:11 ] T'Amber > although people will still want to contribute regardless of the current lay
[ 17:55:16 ] T'Amber > [/end]
[ 17:55:52 ] Mynxee > if a topic is relevant and unique and well supported, it deserves to be treated as others before it in terms of process. that's all i'm saying. in the end, it is each delegate's choice. I maintain it is still part of our job. end.
[ 17:56:02 ] Mynxee > next item: planning for August Dev Planning meeting. We will be working together to make a prioritized issue list to submit to CCP. What is on that list needs to be determined.
[ 17:56:15 ] Mynxee > (time is short, sorry for terseness)
[ 17:56:33 ] Mynxee > that list needs to be submitted by August 9, imho, to get proper attn internally. end.
[ 17:56:50 ] Mynxee > the dev planning meeting is august 18 iirc. end.
[ 17:56:55 ] Meissa Anunthiel > exactly
[ 17:57:15 ] Dierdra Vaal > is this for CSM5 issues?
[ 17:57:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > or for balance changes or what
[ 17:57:34 ] Meissa Anunthiel > all of them I say, because some of them have been sitting in the backlog forever
[ 17:57:43 ] Mynxee > Korvin reported to me that the balance list he's workig on is not yet complete. I think the dev planning list should be all-inclusive
[ 17:57:51 ] Meissa Anunthiel > and since devs had to take the ones they wanted done out of the pile, unpopular but much-needed thingies are still left rotting
[ 17:58:02 ] Mynxee > and we must figure out a way to identify them, and vote to prioritize them.
[ 17:58:07 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I suggest we put a list of 30ish issues out of the 190 for Pétur to focus on
[ 17:58:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > I dont think its difficult to determine WHAT should be on the list (anything passed by the CSM), but I guess we need to assign pririties.
[ 17:58:17 ] Korvin > !
[ 17:58:22 ] Mynxee > agreed. 30-45 issues is sufficient.
[ 17:58:25 ] Mynxee > go korvin
[ 17:58:32 ] Korvin > considering balance issues list
[ 17:58:43 ] Korvin > i made some brainstorming in russian community
[ 17:58:50 ] Meissa Anunthiel > better ask for few so those are fresh in Pétur's mind than asking for all of them
[ 17:58:53 ] Korvin > similar to CCPs http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722&page=42
[ 17:59:15 ] Korvin > i want to squise all the issues and possible solutions from that discussions
[ 17:59:22 ] Korvin > and structurise them
[ 17:59:34 ] Korvin > i will finish in 3-4 days
[ 17:59:50 ] Korvin > and post it on internal forun to polish by CSM
[ 17:59:51 ] Mynxee > ok. remember that a CCP deliverable is dependent on us providing them that list. end.
[ 18:00:00 ] Trebor Daehdoow > !
[ 18:00:07 ] Mynxee > trebor go
[ 18:00:15 ] Trebor Daehdoow > Would you like me to do the same for UI issues?
[ 18:00:17 ] Trebor Daehdoow > [end]
[ 18:00:49 ] Mynxee > we can discuss process outside this meeting. i just wantd it on public record that we ARE workign on a prioritized list for the August dev planning meeting.
[ 18:00:58 ] Mynxee > i think that about wraps it up, really.
[ 18:01:01 ] Trebor Daehdoow > /emote nods
[ 18:01:03 ] Mynxee > any final comments?
[ 18:01:09 ] CCP Xhagen > o\
[ 18:01:17 ] Mynxee > hi xhagen
[ 18:01:21 ] Mynxee > .===============================CSM MEETING 005 ADJOURNED===============================.