Modify or Remove Learning Skills (CSM)

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All this data is potentially out of date, and should be taken with a truckload of salt


  • Title: Modify or Remove Learning Skills
  • Raised by: Trebor Daehdoow
  • Submission Date: 26 July 2010
  • Issue ID: ???


Learning skills are a contentious issue for EVE players. Many believe they are an impediment to the game because training them is effectively required in order to progress at a reasonable rate, while others contend that the short-term/long-term tradeoffs that learning skills provide are an useful aspect of the game.

The consensus of the CSM is that the current learning skills system is, on balance, a detriment to EVE because it forces new players to delay gratification at a critical point in their introduction to the game. We believe this to be something that reduces player retention, and thus hinders the growth of EVE.

We therefore present two methods to address this problem, while at the same time being fair to existing players.

It must be emphasized that this is a divisive issue, both within the player community and inside the CSM itself. Therefore, planning and implementation of changes to learning skills should involve close consultation with the CSM.

Potential Solution[edit]

Modifying Learning Skills[edit]

Should CCP decide to modify the existing learning skills system, we propose the following:

  • New characters are created with all the skills in the learning subgroup trained to level III, including the advanced skills.
  • Change the prerequisite for advanced learning skills to level III of the primary skill instead of IV for purposes of consistency. Alternately, grant level IV basic and level II advanced skills.
  • Existing characters are given bonus skillpoints equal to the amount needed to train all of the learning skills to the levels now being granted to new players. While this gives existing players who have trained these skills a slight boost, it compensates for the time they spent training those skills that new characters won't have to spend.

Removing Learning Skills[edit]

Should CCP decide to simply remove learning skills, we propose the following:

  • Increase all base attributes to 12.
  • Provide the same 40 allocatable points during remap, with the current minimum of 5 points, but increase the maximum allocation in a skill from 15 to 16.
    • Variations on the above are possible; for example, base attributes 16, 20 points allocated, minimum 1, maximum 12.
    • According to a post by Mashie Saldana this will almost exactly match the training abilities of a fully-trained character.
  • Leave implants as they are.
  • Refund all accumulated learning skill skillpoints and skillbook expenses.
  • Provide one extra respec, or reset everyone's respec cooldown.

Important Caveats[edit]

Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:

  • No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate.
  • If skills are removed from the game, skillpoints must be reimbursed.

Whichever method is chosen, we also suggest the following improvements:

  • Improve the interface for allocating bonus skillpoints - even a "allocate bonus points to train this skill to next level" contextual menu option would be enough.
  • Determine the optimum initial attribute settings for new players, based on the skills they have historically trained (not including the learning skills, of course!), and use these as the new default settings.
  • Add a new reward for completing the NPE and each of the profession tutorials - a small pool of bonus skillpoints. Tweak the tutorials so that they guide new players into using these bonus skillpoints to ensure that they don't have to wait to explore each new career path.


  • Easier initial career paths for new players.
  • Potentially improved new player retention.
  • Simplifies skill planning by removing learning skill variables.


  • Disliked by some in the community on grounds of equity.
  • Removes an element of complexity some players enjoy.
  • Divisive issue; players are either strongly in favor of, or opposed to, this change.


  • One CSM suggested that CCP should consider simply setting all learning skills to V.

Relevant Forum Threads[edit]

Meeting Minutes[edit]



Passed 5/4