Suicide ganking (CSM)

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All this data is potentially out of date, and should be taken with a truckload of salt

Stats[edit]

Raised by: Ankhesentapemkah
Submission Date: 31-05-2008
Issue ID: 0026

Summary[edit]

There are concerns with players that fit fully insured ships with high-damage modules, to attack and destroy other players in high-security space, either for looted cargo or modules or as grief tactic.

There are numerous problems with the system:

  • There is no defense against such tactics, besides attempting to suicidge-gank the criminals first or by pre-summoning CONCORD ships, which is a questionable tactic.
  • The attacker is not at any risk, as he can patiently scan each ship to see if it is a profitable target
  • There are not enough consequences for the attacker, standing loss can easily be raised back up, financial impact is offset by insurance
  • There is no way to get revenge against the attacker, as he can be in an NPC corp to avoid wardecs and usually has gangmates to assist him
  • Fundemental issues with the amount of financial damage between attacking and attacked parties, attacker can inflict hundreds of time more damage than it costs him


Potential Solutions[edit]

  • Tradable Kill Rights
    • Pros
      • Puts bounty hunting back on the chart
      • Allows for characters without a large corp backing them as well as non-combat characters to get their revenge more easily
      • Some insecurity and unpredictability to high-sec crime
      • Allows players to provide their own security
    • Cons
      • Suicide gankers and other criminals might just be alts that are not hindered by losing their ship, booty gets laundered to other characters
      • Might deter, but does not prevent the crime


  • Increased Security Status Penalty for High-Sec Crime
    • Pros
      • More meaningful consequence to crime
      • Criminals have to pick their targets more thoroughly, cannot kill as much without having to grind their standing back up
      • Punishment and inconvenience might convince some to pick up a different career
      • Longer removal of criminals from high-sec
    • Cons
      • Character might be recycled
      • Accidents might be punished too harshly
      • Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behaviour


  • Exponential Security Status Penalty for High-Sec Crime
    • Pros
      • Accidents will no longer be harshly punished
      • Longer removal of criminal elements from high-sec
    • Cons
      • Character might be recycled
      • Use of alts while ‘cooling down’
      • Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior


  • Known, Repeated offenders can (either temporarily or not) no longer raise their security status through ratting, etc
    • Pros
      • Hard consequences to repeated offenders
      • Longer removal of criminal elements from high-sec
    • Cons
      • Character might be recycled
      • Use of alts while ‘cooling down’
      • Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior


  • No insurance when involved in crime
    • Pros
      • Crime costs more for criminals thus…
        • likely to result in a drop in random grief suicide ganking
        • Criminal actually punished and suffering meaningful consequences
        • haulders can carry some more cargo before being economically profitable to suicide gank
        • threshold for attacking mission runners is lowered
      • Realistic, why should insurance pay for criminals that directly damage the insurance company, which has to pay for both criminal and victim
      • Suicide ganking is still on the table for destroying and plundering ‘dumb haulers ships’
    • Cons
      • Accidents get punished harder
      • Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior


  • Criminal pays for victim's insurance
    • Pros
      • Happens in real life
      • More consequences for crime
      • Could stop some griefing, as the victim suffers less and the criminal pays for it too
      • Direct consequence, not avoidable by alts
    • Cons
      • Insurance may not cover a huge part of the loss
      • Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior


  • No insurance for people with negative standing
    • Pros
      • Direct punishment for immoral behavior, like Ultima Online’s statloss
    • Cons
      • Directly upsets balance between pirates and vigilantes
      • Harms activity in low-sec and 0.0
      • Mechanic artificially discourages lots of player behavior


  • Known, repeated offenders eventually become outlaws and attackable by all, even in high-sec
    • Pros
      • Players responsible for enacting justice
      • Realistic, why would CONCORD protect criminals?
      • Harsh consequences for criminal behavour
    • Cons


  • Players can side with CONCORD and attack any player with negative standing / Criminal activity in past X days
    • Pros
      • Players responsible for enacting justice
      • Pre-emptively remove known criminals camping high-sec gates, no longer a massive initiative advantage
      • Consequence for criminal behavior
    • Cons
      • Alt recycling
      • If there is a direct ISK reward, it’s an ISK faucet
      • Might be exploitable by using alts


  • Characters in NPC corps can no longer commit criminal acts
    • Pros
      • Players can wardec criminals and attack pre-emptively
      • Less anonymity for criminals
      • Slightly discourages alt recycling
    • Cons


  • No criminal acts allowed for characters under 15 days old


  • Prevent scanners from operating in high-sec
    • Pros
      • Criminals can no longer calculate if their target is profitable, more risk
    • Cons
      •  ?


Relevant Forum Threads[edit]

Votes[edit]

Resolution[edit]